Ability Banding / Appeal

[isky]

Just wondering if panel take into consideration Bands when appealing?

Child is Banded A - above average,does it help during our appeal as academic ability is high which is part of appeal and childs needs to attend that school for academic reasons as well as other factors.

Thanks

No, bands will not be taken into consideration. Your child's academic ability does not give the panel a reason to admit.

The only part of an appeal that would involve the band you child is in, is in ensuring that the process carried out was correct and that your child should not have been offered a place in band A.
After that as PRH says it plays no part in any appeal.

We are preparing for oversubscription appeal at VA catholic school and have relevant evidence to support our appeal which I think if we presented with an original application our son would be admitted. Unfortunatelly we kept that evidence to ourself and submitted only part of it and it was not accounted for.

Would sons position on waiting list change once appeal heard or it will have no relevance at all as waiting list is in accordance with oversubscription rules. Would I have to raise the matter with the school after appeal?

isky

The appeal panel cannot change your son's position on the waiting list. The only decision they can make is whether or not to admit him. You should submit your additional evidence to the school and ask them to consider if it affects your waiting list position. You don't have to wait until the appeal to do that.

Dear prh47bridge,

Do they have to consider relevant evidence which would affect childs position or can they just say its too late for any additional evidence as places already allocated.

Thank you

If you submit evidence to the school that would affect your son's position on the list they must look at it. If they fail to do so and places are allocated from the waiting list you can appeal on the basis that your son should have been given priority.

We have submitted further evidence to the schools concerned. Is there a time scale the school has to respond as appeals are next week and week after.

Thanks,
isky

The schools should look at your evidence before allocating any further places from the waiting list. That is independent of what happens at appeal. The panel has to make up its own mind on the evidence presented.

trouble is, if your child is band A, school may already be oversubscribed in band A, especially id he is low band A. Better to be high band B, or best of all high band C. Schools take an allocation of band C children, and particularly want that allocation to be as high as possible.

No, that isn't how fair banding works. It makes absolutely no difference whether you are high or low in the band. They are not allowed to use the score as a tie breaker. Schools that use fair banding generally take the same number of children from each band.

The school clearly is oversubscribed in band A otherwise isky's son would already have a place.

prh47bridge, that might not be haw it is SUPPOSED to work, but it is what actually happens, in my experience.

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

Any school that is using fair banding and uses the score as a tie breaker is breaking the law. They MUST use distance, an independently supervised lottery or some other method to allocate places within each band.

A selective school (i.e. a grammar school) can use the test score as a tie breaker. Other schools cannot.

Prh,

You are an expert in this field and yes correct , the school we are fighting with our son is in Band A but because of oversubsripton criteria our son's band A is irrelevant on wating list hence appeal.

I would love if school operated by asiatic rules.

Isky

PRh47brifge. Where are you? Everything seems to operate totally differently where you work to how things operate where I work.

I currently live in the north west but I have helped with admissions cases and appeals across the whole of England. The rules (and relevant law) are the same across all of England. The systems in Wales and Scotland are similar but there are some differences.

And the things we are talking about on this thread and the other thread where we are discussing SEN are enforced by the Schools Adjudicator (who rules on admission arrangements and the Admissions Code across all of England), the Local Government Ombudsman (who intervenes across all of England in cases of maladministration affecting school admissions, SEN provision, etc.) and SENDIST (actually now the HESC Chamber of the First-tier Tribunal but most people still call it SENDIST, and again its remit covers all of England).

To correct myself, the system in Wales is similar to that in England but not identical. The Scottish system is significantly different but many of the same principles apply.

SENDIST, by the way, ensures that LAs and schools meet their statutory responsibilities for SEN children.

The subjects covered in both the threads where you are in dispute with me are statutory requirements affecting all LAs in England. There is no scope for LAs or schools to do things differently.

On the subject of this thread, the Admissions Code which applies across all of England states at paragraph 2.83 that schools must not give priority within bands according to performance in the test. The word "must" means that this is compulsory and, as the Admissions Code has the force of law, this is a legal requirement. If a school chooses to ignore this:

• The Schools Adjudicator will tell them their admission criteria are illegal and force them to change. If they refuse to comply the Secretary of State will tell them they must. If they still refuse to comply their funding will be withdrawn.

• Appeal panels (which are required to be independent) hearing admissions appeals will conclude that the admission arrangements are in breach of the Admissions Code. This will lead to a lot of successful appeals. They will also refer the non-compliance to the Schools Adjudicator.

• In the event of a failed appeal the parents can complain to the Local Government Ombudsman. Even if an appeal panel gets it wrong, the LGO will be aware that giving priority based on test score is illegal and will tell the school to fall in line.

• Ultimately, parents can go to the courts who would order the school to comply with this aspect of the Admissions Code. A school that ignores a court order would face heavy penalties and ultimately would have its funding withdrawn.

If the information you have posted is correct your LA and at least some of your local schools are ignoring the law. If they are really doing as you say parents should be taking appropriate action to force them to obey the law.

prh47bridge, hi, just seen where you have said you are in NE. Most of my special needs work has been in surrey and London, none of these things you mention seem to apply here,

ps, I am not in dispute with you! If you say these things happen where yuo are, I'm sure they do, if you say it is the law, I'm sure it is! but it doesn't happen

They do apply where you work. This is the law. There are no opt outs.

You have been thorougly exposed on the SEN thread. You have claimed that the LA you work for (although you subsequently claimed you work for schools rather than the LA) has not issued any new statements for 5 years. However, the LAs in the areas in which you claim to have worked have all issued significant numbers of new statements in 2010 (the most recent year for which figures are available). The other statements you make on that thread simply lack credibility.

What I have said about fair banding does happen. If you can name a school which is using fair banding and is using the score to prioritise pupils within bands you should refer them to the Schools Adjudicator who will order them to stop.

There are 2 schools in my locality that use fair banding. If a band is over-subscribed one uses distance and the other uses a random lottery.

asiatic - can you link to any schools which use ranked order within a band? If a school did that while stating another procedure they would be very soon found out during the appeals when parents found out the last distance, etc.

Dear prh,

Just wondering what would make of the following comments: well presented case and well done, with 2 panel mem not even asking questions.
Is that what they say at every hearing or genuinelly the once they actually liked.

Isky

I sit on an appeals panel. I don't think I have ever commented in terms of "well done" but rather have thanked the appellant for presenting their case and coming along in person and taking the time to explain things. I always try and ask questions even if a case seems cut and dried or hopeless. I don't know the other panel members views until after the hearing. It could be that you are right that maybe the panel members didn't feel the need or conversely it could just mean that they were trying to make up time to fit all the appeals in - it is very difficult to tell tbh!

I have to say that I have provided lots of evidence and support letters with 4x A4 pages presentation which they all read I assume.
isky

That's good - sounds like they were relieved that they were given appropriate information in advance. It is very frustrating sometimes when parents claim this or that but can't produce any evidence and it is a lot easier to get the information beforehand, rather than having to read it in front of them and arrange for it to be copied. Panel members in my area normally get sent the documents a few days before an appeal, so we do read them in advance.