Tutoring in seondary schools

[pchick]

How much tutoring goes on in Secondary schools. Is it to top-up for GCSEs or does it extend all the way down to year 7? how common is it?

I was following a Learner Driver the other day and the car had an ad on the tailgate - £xxx for 5 lessons and I though Feck Me! I took driving lessons quite a few years ago when it was £13 and hour. Inflation has certainly hiked up the price of driving lessons.

What tutors charge isn't that different from driving instructors, hair dressers, music teachers etc so why single them out for a rant?

My point is that those who need tuition the most are not getting it, especially for Maths and English, and the consequence is poor numeracy and literacy in many adults today.

How many not-so-rich parents can afford to pay £25 - £50 per week, per subject, per child, over quite a long period of time? (2 hours at £25 per hour).

In contrast, many students who don't need tuition are getting it simply because their parents have the money to spare or are pushing their children beyond their capabilities: "My DS is in a super-selective, had tutors for seven GCSE subjects".

The only reason many so called 'professional' tutors are able to charge exorbitant rates is the superficial demand for their services, and often the superficial impression of 'professionalism'. After all it was 'professional' bankers who turned out to be totally unfit for the purpose.

BellaVita, I am glad to hear that and I hope others will use this method too.

I am highly offended at the suggestion I am not professional and I am nothing like a banker. I provide a high quality service, ang get very good results for my students. CSS for those whose parents can't afford it- that is why there is the 1-2-1 tuition programme in schools. What in earth do the bankers have to do with this?

Btw a lot of my students have tried other tutors first who may have no teaching experience or may be students themselves. They have found that the tutors didn't have the knowledge and experience they needed. I know the little things that matter in exams. If a student doesn't understand I know alternative approaches to explain the same thing. Uf I elk in to he presented with a homework task, I can immediately switch to that topic due to hours of experience. This is what makes me a professional and is what my students happily pay extra for.

Blimey!!

Tutoring at secondary is just not something I'd ever contemplated.

I suppose if they were at a "failing" school - by which I mean it was failing them I might consider it- but I'd be more inclined to move school of use a tutor in the context of home education.

I expect some of the kids at the schools mine go to are tutored to the hilt, but that is "the fault" of the parents - kids who really only got into the school because they were over tutored, and then need lots of help to stay anywhere near the rest of the class (highly selective school).

I feel much less bad about the amount of time the kids spend doing music and the cost of that now!

Both my eldest DC have had tutors for language (for a while). They have all had private music lessons. One had in school Maths tutoring (the other was hoping to qualify but I haven't had a letter so I don't think they have). The school also offers extra support for those who need it at GCSE time.

It helps massively as a tutor can go at their pace, and keep explaining until they get it. Actually I also think language teaching at DCs school is the weakest aspect of the school.

All tutors I know charge £30+ per hour, and are qualified, I wouldn't really want one for school subjects who wasn't experienced in school.

"I don?t get all this tutoring business let the kids have a life for god?s sake. You can?t make a silk purse out of a sow?s ear tutoring seems to be more about parents egos rather than what is better for the child."

Because some of us have children in under performing schools and need the extra boost that the teachers aren't providing.

"kids who really only got into the school because they were over tutored, and then need lots of help to stay anywhere near the rest of the class"

Sweeping Generalisation Alert :o Not all parents get tutors because their DCs are struggling or because they are ultra competitive.

We got DS a Spanish tutor, not because he was struggling at school but because he found it too easy. He has a talent for languages so why not nuture it?

If your DS showed signs of being an exceptional football player then would you not want to nurture that by getting him onto some professional coaching scheme as opposed to his kick-the-ball-around-for-30-mins afterschool football club?

If the answer is yes then why are academic stuff any different?

Bunbaker I dont disagree with you, and indeed paying school fees is tutoring in another form. I would also consider a tutor if I felt that either of my children were struggling to acquire key numeracy and literacy skills. My daughter is dyslexic, and some extra help in English both at home and in school at a key stage has really helped her performance in all subjects and her enjoyment of school. If I felt she was slipping again I would want her to have help.

Tutoring is not much talked about but my observation of affluent selective schools is that for maths it seems to be most frequent in the top and bottom sets. I get the latter, but worry about the former. Fine if it is that, say, a child will need to get exceptional maths results in order to read engineering. However I am slightly frightened by the competitive tutoring in place to either keep a child at the top of the year group or to achieve all A*. Not that these are not fine achievements but I suspect there is a cost.

I dont really want my relationship with my teenagers to be dominated by an effort to over-achieve in school. I want DC to work hard, be diligent, and get there on their own efforts. Because that is what they will have to do in adult life. I want them to gain the emotional intelligence that allows them to understand that if you dont work you dont achieve your goals, that you sometimes fail or disappoint yourself but you need to pick yourself up and start again, and that work-life balance is important.

They might get better results if they had a tutor taking them through work they have covered in school. However not having a tutor means you have to listen in class and write good notes. I also wonder about the mini-renaissance children brought up to believe that all A*s and Grade 8 in piano are what count. I sometimes suspect that some use the same criteria and find it difficult to relate to less accomplished children. Real life is not all about grades and qualifications, and unless those results are backed by underlying intelligence, self management and social and emotional skills, an over structured and disciplined approach to teenage learning could presumably lead to problems in the future.

I am truly shocked at how many of your kids get tutored outside of school!

Seems to me that the schools aren't doing their job properly. I am particularly shocked that selective and independent school pupils 'need' to get tutored. The 'selected' ones should be bright enough (having been selected via entrance exam) and the private school parents are already paying lots of money to have their kids educated!

I'm not British myself (German) and have never, ever heard this going on in Germany, certainly not when I was there (I was completely in charge of my schoolwork, my homework, how/when to revise - my parents wouldn't have dreamed of getting involved! They were, however, lovely, helpful parents who totally supported whatever I did ).

other - As I said above, not everyone tutor because their kids are struggling.

"Every child I know at hothouse schools have a tutor, that?s why league tables are a waste of time it?s not the school teaching anymore it?s the parents/tutor."

Gosh I do so agree!

I worry a lot about the fact that so many DC at my DD's school have tutors. I think it makes (some of) the teachers lazy and complacent, as the DCs achieve whatever they do! And then you get a negative spiral going on, where more and more tutors are needed to keep DCs achieving at the level parents expect, and teachers get more and more complacent and kid themselves that it is due to their hard efforts that the DC are achieving.

"Seems to me that the schools aren't doing their job properly."

Yep. DD's school has a lot of high attainers in year 7. Given that 90% of the intake arrive at school with levels 4 and 5, the school massively underachieves with its GCSE results. It is the best high school in our LA and the only one in our catchment area. We can't afford private school but are prepared to pay out for a tutor if necessary.

I am a university lecturer at a university that demands A-grades to get onto the highly competitive course. We constantly struggle with 1st year failure rates from students who seemingly have straight-A's at A'level, but I just wonder how many of them achieved their straight A's from intensive tutoring and then struggle once they are left to their own devices on a very demanding degree?

This situation has improved somewhat since we introduced technical interviews where students are probed on their basic understanding of the subject area - something a tutor can only prepare them for to a limited extent as questions can change from one interviewer to the next. However, we do find that students struggle with subjects they really shouldn't having achieved A's at A'level.

I therefore wonder whether it is really so good for them in the long run?

Good point, OldMother.

I think that by spoon feeding our children and giving them no chance to learn by themselves (there seems barely time given school and tutoring according to this thread) we're not helping them in the long run.

At my DCs (state, pretty good) secondary, there is a lot of emphasis put on "independent learning" especially after yr 10. I completely agree that this is essential if they are to cope at Uni, I do think that some find it easier than others and generally boys don't manage it as well as girls (until they have learned from a little failure). Schools don't always have the time to do this properly and tailor it to a specific child. That is where a tutor can help, if they are any good, they too will encourage this and actually teach a child 'how' to revise. This is what my 2 DSs have learned from their tutors along with the actual subject tuition.

OldMotherDismass, I have a colleague who graduated in maths a few years ago. He tutors current undergraduates - maths and medical students (who need maths help) on a mainly voluntary basis - these are mostly siblings of his friends or others referred via word of mouth. These are students of a well known college in London which I believe asks for straight As.

BeingFluffy, I am not sure I understand your point? (I am not at said well known college in London)

The point is that it is not just A level students being tutored, but undergraduates who gained admission with A grades.

Ah, now I see.

The thing is, would they need tutoring to bring them up to the standard they need to get their degree, if they hadn't already been tutored to the max to get their A grades at A'level? I know we are having to look at providing remedial lectures over the summer to cover the gap for incoming students from what we expect them to know when they come in and what they actually do know.

This thread is very interesting.

I wonder, if parents/pupils are relying on tutors to get them through examinations, whether this isn't fostering the "teach to the test" mentality even more than when "teach to the test" is just going on in schools. Hence school pupils are very ill-equipped indeed for the independent enquiry required of them at university.

The other day DD had to do an essay on the muslim faith. She wrote pages of regurgitated facts from the Internet. I told her that some of these 'facts' are told from a Western viewpoint and that she needed to include her opinion and not just facts.

She came out of that 'tutoring' session with a greater understanding of the muslim faith and that it isn't all about keeping women down and blowing themselves up.

Yes at 11+ it is a case of teaching to the test. Yes at secondary school it can be about helping struggling kids. But it can also be about preparing a child for 'the independent enquiry required of them at university'

That sounds like good parental support and encouragement, pushed. Getting children to think, argue through things and develop a love of learning is great. Learning how to pass exams for the sake of passing exams is not.

I get so many students in revision sessions wanting to know whether they need to know this or that in terms of will it be on the exam? They often don't want to know if they think it won't be tested this time, even if that means they will struggle with other concepts later.

One of th first things I do as a tutor is to establish whether a student wishes to continue with Maths. If they never intend to use it again I will teach the tricks that get an answer without unserstanding. I never teach these tricks to students who will need the understanding in the future as it is not in their best interests - they need the understanding. A lot of my students have had previous tutors in the past and there are poor ones and tutors who will make wild promises to get business. I also teach students how to work independently and how to approch past papers. Amazing how many studenys dont know how to use past papers effectively.