new RG uni's

[betternextlife]

Announced today are 4 additions to the RG Group of Unis, Durham, Exeter, Queen Mary, and York. They were all previously part of the 1994 Group.

They all had a good reputation to start with and are not likely to be doing anything differenty at all, but presumably they think this will make them seem better.

So the question remains as to if any 'uni associations' which confer status really based on any actual superiority or just self-imposed hype.

Having taught within a range of institutions (including RG) I think that that it is definately the latter.

yy, senua.

And yy Doom. I do think it might be interesting to get per capita res income stats bandied about, because that changes the picture again, but it would, I suppose, just lead to another layer of confusion for the poor damn students. Games are played constantly to make these stats and tables look good. The pre-REF transfer window is well and truly open at the moment...

When I applied to university in 1992, the only distinctions I knew of were between old polys, and old unis (and Oxbridge I suppose). I went to York because I was told by my lecturer it was the best place to do my course, and I saw a fantastic York lecturer at a conference who inspired me.

I didn't realise at the time that York was actually one of the best universities in the country. I remember when my friends were applying for jobs in our final year in accounting, business etc, that York was always on the list of "accepted unis".

When I did find out about the Russel Group, it surprised me that my old uni may not have been seen to be on a par with them. So I'm glad that it is now being added because I think it deserves that recogition. Although as I say it always seemed to be seen in the same light anyway.

AFAIR the 1994 universities were simply smaller than the RG ones. York is certainly tiny compared to Birmingham etc. So academically they were on a par, just on a smaller scale. I'm not sure if research has a bearing too, York has (or did have) a larger post-grad population than undergrad and was very research heavy.

I'm not normally snobbish about this type of thing, but I just can't help myself with this as I'm still very proud that I was able to attend such a wonderful place and admit it's always got my back up that people may have looked at it less favourably as it was in the wrong "group"!

Speaking from the coal face I see very little confusion from students aiming for top universities. They couldn't care less whether Durham and Exeter are 1994 or RG. Nor could the more discerning employers.

From a recruitment perspective, in a 'traditional' profession, nobody would ever think York was anything other than fantastic.

Oh theta that makes me smile, and my degree stopped being important years ago!

@yellowtip Indeed. Both are well known for being the way they are and we know what we will get from them. Some people want that, some don't.

Redspotted - the RG is a self-selecting group based on the universities with the highest amount of research income by volume (i.e. not per member of academic staff). the 1994 group were also research intensive, but had far fewer staff, so their research income is naturally smaller. However, if you were to divide res income by number of staff you'd get a different picture.

York is a cracking university - seriously good. It always amused me how much it used pictures of King's Manor and the city centre to let anyone who had the notion that it was an ancient university carry on thinking that way...

I have noticed students caring, yellow.

When we got the email yesterday, we were all talking about it and you'd be surprised how many students were either confused (because they thought their university was 'good' and therefore already RG), or angry because their university has often expressed the view that being RG didn't matter and now it seemed to be admitting that it did.

A lot of students I know are really worried at the moment and cutely aware that jobs are in short supply, and fell that even if they do all the things they are told, they may fall through the cracks.

@redspottedfrog The cleverest person I have ever met professionally (i.e. cleverest in my professional field, not just per se (I've attended lectures by Stephen Hawking, for example) went to York. He is widely acknowledged as one of the completely top people in our very select discerning tiny corner of our profession.

You've got to bear in mind, I think, that this generation of students have had the rug pulled out from under them quite a bit and one more shake-up feels scary.

habbibu - you mean ancient universities aren't all built around concrete lakes tastefully decorated with goose shit? Say it isn't so!

I was always surprised that these 4 were not in the RG already but apart from size I think one of the main informal differences was they don't or didn't have a medical school.

Whether it be right or wrong I do think it is true that employers take notice of whether someone graduates from a 'proper university' or a 'former poly' and so I suspect the 'proper university' group will gradually club together as a marketing tool to differentiate themselves.

By the way, I have a 3 different degrees from RG universities and I have never been able to spell or punctuate from Primary school and I always litter my posts with errors. It embarrases me on occassions but there you are. Nothing I can do about it. Just the way my brain works... or not.

habbibu I know! One thing it certainly ain't is pretty! Though the lake and Heslington House are beautiful. Awww, how I miss the sound of honking geese waking me up in the morning....!

Fraid not, doom. Though my ancient uni alma mater had its fair share of concrete. I hear they even allow bricks in Cambridge these days...

Biggest man-made lake in the country, possibly Europe too, so I believe...

I spent all my time in KM, tbh - always got lost in Heslington

and when it floods, it floods.

Sadly I think it's true to say that society would value a third-class degree in Persian Studies at Oxford more than a first in Midwifery at Edge Hill University. This huddling into little groups of excellence worsens the problem imo.

But that's the thing, Beta - the RG is a very specific type of university, and RI by income is a bit of a crude indicator - some types of research just cost more - doesn't make them better.

@thebest It might. Not in the context of a midwifery related job, obviously. Or in the context of actual childbirth. But otherwise - yes, it might. Why would that be sad? I'd probably find it much more interesting talking to someone who knew about ancient history than someone who knew about midwifery. This would have been the case even when I was upduffed, to be honest.

To be fair, I do think there is more and more awareness that a third from anywhere is really not good. I don't think many people coast through at 'good' universities and still wander into jobs.

@Doom Carol Vorderman should be a lesson to us all.

thetasigmamum.

It just seems a bit sad to me. I think perhaps knowing the demographic of people going into those two particular courses. I actually do have a friend who did Persian Studies (or whatever it's called) at Oxford and a friend who did Midwifery at Edge Hill. I know which one I would want at the business end when I am in labour

On a lighter serious note I may, from this moment onwards begin all of my posts with the words 'I have a masters degree from a plate-glass university.'

theta, I dunno if you noticed, but I think a few things have changed in universities and in the job market since she graduated!

Frankly, if someone gets a third from Oxford, unless they were very ill, I would tend to judge them poorly. So much effort goes into each student, I think you'd have to be either very lazy or very bad at your studies to get a third.

'I do actually' not 'I actually do'

Damn you split infinitive.