I need appeal proceedure advice please

[VivaLeBeaver]

DD didn't get into the Grammar school she wanted to go to - they allocate places on distance and although kids from this village normally get in this year they haven't. Am gutted for her.

Do we have any groundsfor appeal. I'm sure they've fulfilled the admission criteria correctly so what can I do if anything?

School is a language specialist school but then so is the one she has been offered a place at. No medical conditions or special needs, etc.

I can't find any info out about after school clubs. The only gcse offered I can see that the other school doesn't offer is Graphics. Can I find out what the hell is entailed in Graphics and then say my dd has a burning passion for it?

I'm afraid I doubt you will win an appeal on that basis.

Ask the school about after school clubs. They should be happy to tell you.

If a mistake affects a large number of children and the school could not be expected to cope with all of them the parents of the affected children will have to appeal. It will then be up to the appeal panel to figure out how many children the school can accept and decide which ones to admit.

Viva, having been in your position 2 years ago, I feel for you.

We appealed (successfully), but it was for a comp - so I probably couldn't give you any relevant advice. But, I would say be as prepared as you possibly can be for the appeal. I did a lot of homework to argue against the LEA's reason for not admitting my son which I used with all my reason for admitting him.

One thing I've researched is how many have got in on appeal in previous years. So I know they can cope with 5 over pan in a year group. But of course this can work the other way, they say they've had 5 extra in previous years and now can't fit more in the school canteen, hall, etc due to previous years being over pan.

The school we are appealing for has just been granted £4million to improve buildings, facilities. Si I will mention this, but obviously new buildings won't be up by sept.

this thread is excellent - we're also intending to appeal so will watch this thread

SchoolsNightmare - For most schools it is actually the LA that makes the decisions. The rules are that if a mistake has been made and it only affects one or two children they should be admitted automatically without an appeal. However, most LAs still insist on an appeal so it is then up to the appeal panel to decide whether or not the school should accept the additional children. Similarly it is the LA that opposes the appeal in most cases. If you think a mistake has been made tell us the details and you will get advice from myself and the other experts on the strength of your case. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post the information publicly.

As VivaLeBeaver says, it is useful to know if any year groups are over PAN because this indicates that they can cope with a few extra children. You can also look at things like how the pupil numbers compare with the school's capacity, whether there have been any changes to the school since the capacity was set and so on. Again, if you tell us what the case to refuse admission says you will get advice on weaknesses in that case and how you might go about attacking it.

Schools can't admit everyone, my DCs school tends to have at least twice as many applicants than it can take, even if it took 20 extra, how would you choose which 20 got in? The appeal system is the best way to do that.
To find out about after school clubs, talk to people with kids there. Also consider exactly what is going to be in any new buildings (eg. Music pratice rooms, or music technology rooms), the library facilities and so on. I find it hard to believe that a grammar and the alternative comp have no difference in GCSEs, maybe different boards? Sitting an extra Maths qualification? Other languages?
Maybe pastoral aspects? The way the school day is organised? House systems, and exactly what the houses do (is it jst 1 a year sports day or competitions throughout the year)?

prh47bridge - can I pm you? I've namechanged as I was going to post my info on this thread but it will still out me as a mner if any of ds's teachers see it!

I appealed successfully to grammar for DD and the format of the letter was set out with
Academic achievement
Other school achievements
Extenuating circumstances. (for her was school fire causing visible dip in attainment in yr 3 etc)

itookanarrowtotheknee - Feel free. Always happy to answer PMs.

thankyou

Just to add a little of what we did that seemed to work (as far as I know, I can't tell which parts of my case were dismissed and which parts the panel paid attention to)

Our letter was set out as QOD says, but I also included a list of reasons why ds would benefit from a place.

I didn't argue the schools case at all, I tried to be quite gracious about the whole thing and said I appreciated that admitting my child may cause them a problem, but I did ask the school representative how they had coped in previous years when they had had to admit an appeal child. He just said that the appeal children were doing very well and that the school had coped. He talked about things like the computer suite only having enough stations for the right number of children though.

SchoolsNightmare - when I got the official statement from the LEA as to why they wouldn't admit my son it was all about over crowding and space.

I found out what the actual numbers were for each year group and discovered that Y9 had 3 less than the maximum of 165 per year, so could argue against their 'assemblies and lunch times' are full up reason.

I also found out statistics re pupil/teacher ratios (schools was a relatively generous 15:1) and used government comparators for a new secondary school with the same number of pupils (the school we wanted had a greater total net area). The average class size was only 27.5 so we argued that class sizes would not be prejudiced. I also argued that, as our area had a greater number of single sex girls schools than boys, there was an issue of inequality of access for boys to single sex provision.

Then, after much snooping on the net, I found a determination by the schools' adjudicator from 5 years ago in which it was stated that the school could easily accommodate another 25 pupils in each year group within the existing accommodation. (The panel asked for lots of details at this point!)

Then I went on to our reasons for wanting this school which I won't bore you with.

Hth.

Perhaps a very naive question, but where would we find out about previous years intakes at the school for which we are appealing? I know that last year 3 were admitted on appeal, but have no idea of the basis for their appeal, nor how many people appealed unsuccessfully

You can write to the school and ask them, they are obliged to give you any information that might help your appeal. I wouldn't have thought they have to tell you about other peoples appeals though because that shudo be confidential.

I asked the LA when I was on the phone to them about our hearing how many other appeals there were and she told me, and they also told me after the hearing that ours was the only successful one. I would have thought that different LAs do things differently though.

drivinmecrazy - You may find information about numbers in the case to refuse admission which you will receive before the appeal. You can also ask the LA or school (whichever is the admission authority) any questions you want within reason to help you prepare your appeal and they have to answer. However, although they may tell you how many people appealed unsucessfully last year they won't tell you the basis of the successful appeals. As IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll says, giving you that information would be a breach of confidentiality.

If you're appealing due to oversubscription and move closer to the school before the appeal would that be a reason?

You could, for example, argue that your child's social development will be damaged if he or she doesn't go to a local school but it is generally not going to be something that will carry much weight.

I think that people are getting somewhat in front of themselves here. The initial allocations have not been as you would wish but there will be movement in the next couple of weeks, which may mean you are offered a place.

You will have been given a date by which the LA have said you need to appeal, which may seem as though it is a cut off date, it is not. It is a cut off date imposed by the admission authority to give them time to organise the appeals and if you apply for an appeal after that date, they must still allow your appeal, it just may not be with all the other appeals for that school.

When you write your initial appeal letter it does not have to have details, it can simply say I want my child to go to X school because we believe that it will be to their benefit and that full details will be sent to the admission authority in due course. As long as they are there with the admission authority 2 weeks before the appeal date that is plenty of time.

Whilst I would be absolutely for getting together all the information you can to aid your appeal, I would not submit the full appeal document until you are absolutely certain that there is nothing else that you can put in there that will be of help to you at the appeal.

At present I suspect it is still a very raw and painful experience for most and I think that you need to construct an appeal in an ordered calm manner, so think about it for a bit before submitting the appeal.

You're absolutely right, admission.

Everyone I know that didn't get their initial preference was offered it on the continued interest rounds. And in my son's class, we were the only ones that didn't get what we'd wanted on the offer day.

We were, in comparison, very unlucky. Not only did we not get any of our 3 choices, we had no luck from any of the CI lists.

My daughter has not been offered any of her 6 choices. 4 were selective which is understandable I think, however two were local comps although not the nearest to me but not unreasonable. She has been allocated a place 2.3 miles away and it will take her at least an hour on the bus on a good day to get there. I am worried about her travelling in the dark winter nights but I am a fulltime working lone parent and cant escort her due to start and finish times.

Will accepting this place even though I dont want it, mean that I reduce thw possibility of being offered a place the next round at either the two comps I picked or the local comp that i am now on the waiting list for?

Im going to appeal but dont know if I have much hope- it doesnt sound like it?

The LA website is poor and the one person I spoke to in admissions gave me incorrect advice about another matter and now I have no confidence in what i am being told. This whole sitiuation has been devastating for myself and my dd. I keep weeping all the time.