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Original poster

Further Maths A level

76 replies

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 31/01/2012 21:20

Argh. DS2 (year 11) has to choose his A level subjects for next year. He isn't really sure exactly what he wants to study at university so he is choosing subjects that hopefully keep things open for him rather than closing things down.

He might want to study Economics, Statistics, Physics or Physics with Philosophy or possibly even something else Grin at uni, he just doesn't know.

He had thought Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Economics but he's having a last minute crisis about Further Maths.

How hard is it, does anyone know? He is now wondering if he should swap it for something else, but in so doing he does rule out lots of university courses in the process.

And we have to decide by tomorrow evening as we have to talk to the teachers about the chosen A levels at parents' evening.

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MyCatsHaveOpposableThumbs · 01/02/2012 17:42

My DS is doing maths, further maths and economics to A2. He has applied to study Maths at uni, and has 3 offers from "good" unis - as he has further maths his offer for one of them is AAB rather AAA, and it means that he would be able to go straight into year 2 of a (4 year) maths degree at Glasgow if he chooses to go there.

He has found it tough, and he wouldn't have been allowed to do the course if he didn't have an A* at GCSE.

fossil97 · 01/02/2012 17:53

I did further maths, I managed a C at A level! it was hard but it did make normal maths easier in comparison, I wouldn't say Maths and FM are as hard as 2 different subjects. I really does depend on aptitude for the abstract side of maths I guess. I should think it would be very relevant for a uni Maths course, but if he is going to something like Engineering with a high maths content, it also gives you a head start. So it was worth it to have covered the syllabus (mechanics in my case) even if I didn't get the highest grade.

gelatinous · 01/02/2012 20:42

ds does f. maths, chemistry, physics, economics and maths (in his perceived order of difficulty). But although the f.maths is the hardest, it compliments the others very well - maths + f. maths is less work than two others put together for example. F. maths is very useful not only for physics, but also for statistics and economics too, so given his possible university choices I think he'd be best advised to do it.

strictlovingmum · 01/02/2012 21:09

Hi, gelatious your DS is doing exactly what mine is doing, if you don't mine me asking, How is finding Chemistry?
DS had some reservations about it at the beginning of term, scored relatively low on some of the first internal tests, now is settling, but is still saying, "It is hard", I wonder if only my DS is feeling this way, don't intend to hijack Smile
In general, took him a while to settle and get used to(hopefully) workload and and nobody holding his hand (required to work a lot independently) TIA

Takver · 01/02/2012 21:11

Can't help re. difficulty, but as well as being relevant for physics & maths degrees at uni it is also extremely helpful if he goes for economics.

Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 01/02/2012 21:17

Thanks all for your useful thoughts.

I'm not long back from parents' evening. The maths teacher we saw said he was "cognitively able to do the further maths but she wouldn't support his decision because he's not passionate about the subject". Hmm She then admitted she knew not much about his maths (she's a new teacher) "as he's very quiet and isn't one of the few with his hands up in class when problems go up on the whiteboard."

He's really disappointed. Sad

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EllenJaneisnotmyname · 01/02/2012 21:18

I didn't do further maths 'A' level and I found that for my physics degree I had to catch up with the maths pretty bloody quickly. Even taking the further maths course but not taking the exam would have been useful! Again, nearly 30 years ago, but I'm sure the maths is the same...

Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 01/02/2012 21:19

DH did maths, further maths and physics and then went on to Bristol to do a maths degree (he got a 2:1) and he says he's never been passionate about maths.

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EllenJaneisnotmyname · 01/02/2012 21:19

Sorry, too late and crossed with you. If she doesn't really know him, can she really judge his passion for the subject? What do you think?

EllenJaneisnotmyname · 01/02/2012 21:23

My ex dickhead did maths, further maths and physics 'A' levels and went on to get a first in Maths. He was passionate about his subject, though. I preferred the physics to the maths, at 'A' level, but didn't realise quite how much maths there is in a physics degree. (Too much)

cricketballs · 01/02/2012 21:30

just wondering why you have to make a firm decision now? The norm is that 'rough' idea of subjects made at this stage, but the firm decisions wait until results day when the reality is known

Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 01/02/2012 21:34

EllenJane - LOL at ex dickhead. Grin

I think DS2 will be fine doing Further Maths. School won't support them unless they are certain the student can get an A grade or better. (That's really rubbish isn't it?)

He has his heart set on Economics at the LSE, possibly and they absolutely require FM. But as it's his 4th A level they won't require him to have got an A/A* grade necessarily.

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Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 01/02/2012 21:37

cricketballs - he has to decide now as they need to timetable the classes and teachers. They can't guarantee to accomodate any change after results day.

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EllenJaneisnotmyname · 01/02/2012 21:47

School won't support him unless he's likely to get an A grade at GCSE Maths or at 'A' level further maths? A bit harsh if it's at 'A' level! Even dickhead (ex 'D' H, Dick Head, see what I did there?) only got a B at 'A' level further maths. I suppose these days with grade inflation you may need an A at GCSE maths to cope with further maths?

webwiz · 01/02/2012 21:50

Well it is possible to do very well at Maths without being passionate about it and without putting your hand up all the time Hmm

The fact that your DS is disappointed means that he obviously wants to take further maths and I would push on with the choice if at all possible. Does he have another Maths teacher who has taught him previously who will "vouch" for him if necessary?

Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 01/02/2012 22:29

He already has IGCSE maths at A* - taken a year early.
They would expect him to get an A*/A at further maths A level. It's quite wrong isn't it when the A levels offered are for the benefit of the school ahead of the benefit of the pupil taking the A level.

Grrr.

Anyway, I'm off to bed.

Webwiz - Yes! The putting your hand up thing is very odd indeed.

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Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 01/02/2012 22:30

Thank you all for your helpful advice and handholding. Mumsnet is a wonderful community of lovely people.

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gelatinous · 01/02/2012 22:52

I agree if he's disappointed that's a good indicator that his heart is in it enough, whether through passion or wanting to do it as a means to an end (eg Economics) and I suspect if he makes enough of an issue over it (thus showing enthusiasm) the school will allow him to do it. I'm sure that an A* at iGCSE a year early is more than sufficient to succeed at it and it is really only the last couple of modules that are really harder than single maths.

strictlovingmum your ds has great taste in subjects Grin, I'll pm you.

Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 02/02/2012 10:21

We could suggest to school that he gets taught FM and registers to sit the exam at both the school and outside of the school. If they remain worried nearer the exam, they can cancel as a candidate at the school and he could sit it outside of school, off their books.

Because all this is really about preserving their A*/A grade haul.

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thetasigmamum · 02/02/2012 11:09

I did Maths and Further Maths at A level and went on to Cambridge to do a maths degree. I was never passionate about the subject (and did Part II of my tripos in a subject I thought I might enjoy more) but it was easy for me, so I went with the path of least resistance. I also never ever put my hand up in class. As a point of principle (the principle being self protection)

mummytime · 02/02/2012 11:22

My son has applied to do Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Product Design. He wants to do Engineering. His school let you do Further Maths if you get an A* (or are recommended despite a very near miss) at GCSE. I did Pure and Further Pure in the dark ages, I struggled but worked hard and got a good grade. I expect my DS will struggle less, but will also enjoy the problem solving aspect.

Could your son ask a previous teacher he has had, what they would recommend about Further Maths? My DS is fortunate to have this year the best teacher he has had, who recognises my DS's ability. He has had teachers before he just hasn't clicked with.

Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 02/02/2012 11:49

The teacher last night said he was cognitively able for the further maths but insufficiently passionate. I mean, what does that even mean?

There is nothing wrong with taking a subject as a means to an end, if it's necessary to get you to where you want to go.

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Original poster
MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 02/02/2012 11:52

mummytime - yes, the A* requirement is clear. Son's school has the same requirement but this new teacher appears to have embellished that requirement by adding a need to display passion and to put your hand up to answer problems on the whiteboard.

I dislike arbitrary nonsense.

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Lilymaid · 02/02/2012 12:07

I remember receiving similar comments from DS's school about Further Maths when he was choosing his options a few years ago. He had also got A* at GCSE Maths in Y10. Teacher recommended that he should take the two year Additional Maths AS (?) rather than Further Maths. In the end he only only took (ordinary) Maths to AS/A2 but has recently completed his MSc in Economics (not at LSE but at highly rated university) which had compulsory Maths courses.

I think DS would say, in hindsight, that the more Maths you have done at school, the better able you will be to deal with the Maths at university where you won't have as much help!

ajandjjmum · 02/02/2012 12:17

DS is currently studying Physics at uni.

His school did most of the A level Maths modules in the first year, and then moved on to the Further Maths modules. Because he'd had his uni offers at this point, and didn't need FM, he dropped it. He has subsequently said how helpful it would have been in his course.

One thought - a very experienced Maths teacher said to us that with most subjects, the grade you get reflects the work you put in. But with Maths and Physics, you need to have an aptitude for the subject to do well - even if you don't love it!