Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Is it possible to drop a so-called "compulsory" subject for GCSE?

54 replies

NigellasGuest · 27/01/2012 11:42

DD hates languages, is not good at French or Spanish and already feels she's not going to do well in her chosen language for GCSE (currently in year 9 and in the process of choosing options for September).

She has mentoring / counselling privately, and also in school (so school are aware of issues) to deal with anxiety. My feeling is that things will be made worse by being forced to do a language. And that may have an adverse affect on her other GCSE's.

Does anyone know where I stand? Can they MAKE her do either French or Spanish? TIA

OP posts:

OrmIrian · 27/01/2012 11:45

Yes it is and no, they can't. It's not compulsory although I know the idea is to encourage a language at GCSE.

DS1 gave up his only MFL at GCSE because he wasn't much good and his option were such that he's have to give up music (NOT going to happen as it's his only potential A* subject).

IndigoBell · 27/01/2012 11:51

A language is not compulsory.

And even if it was kids with SEN can have any and all reasonable accommodations made - ie there is no subject they have to do.

She should be on the SEN register, and they should let her drop all languages.

Original poster

NigellasGuest · 27/01/2012 11:52

Thanks, Orm.
Well they say that as it's a specialist language school everyone must do a language. Funnily enough, they are also a technology specialist school but this year technology is not compulsory! food for thought!

How on earth do i go about this? Write a letter? phone the head?

OP posts:

CustardCake · 27/01/2012 11:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IndigoBell · 27/01/2012 11:57

I'd email a request for a meeting with the SENCO to discuss it.

In the email tell them that you'd like her not to do a language, and tell them why.

This means by the time of the meeting they've had a chance to think about it.

There will be a learning support centre or similar place where she can be babysat by a TA while the others are doing a language......

Original poster

NigellasGuest · 27/01/2012 12:41

She's not actually on the SEN list, although she has had learning support in the past. But that shouldn't make any difference should it?

OP posts:

IndigoBell · 27/01/2012 13:06

Yes, she needs to be on the SEN register so that they can make an exception for her.

Her special need is her anxiety. SEN isn't just about academic stuff. It's anything that effects their ability to learn and progress.

Original poster

NigellasGuest · 27/01/2012 13:17

I have just emailed the SENCO and copied it to the Head! I hope they can get her on the SEN register for the anxiety. She is aready seeing a school counsellor about it so perhaps really she should already have been put on the SEN register?
thanks custard for your reply aswell - you make a good point; languages are valuable (older DD is studying 3 at GCSE so very different case)! However DD in question is definitely of the dance/drama/creative bent and will certainly be headed in that direction - she is very practical. With luck, the area/s she ends up in career-wise will be do-able without a MFL.

OP posts:

SecretSquirrels · 27/01/2012 15:36

Without a MFL you cannot get the EBacc. These now form part of the league tables which is why many schools will now insist that most pupils do a language. It's for the school's benefit not necessarily the child's.
If you look at the league tables many schools which dropped MFLs have scored zero in the EBacc

IdontknowwhyIcare · 28/01/2012 08:33

Ds is hopeless at languages as are myself and his DF. Basically DH told the school if DS had to do a language Ds would not be participating and he would use his time to study other subjects. DH normally very easy going but was adamant in this instance that DS should not waste his time trying a subject he would probably not even scrape a D. DS is on the support for learning register so ti was agreed he could take another subject instead, much to everyones relief. Although to be fair we are in a NC school overseas and so dont count in league tables for EBacc.
Good luck to your DD.

roisin · 28/01/2012 08:43

At some schools languages are compulsory and they will insist you do it.

seeker · 28/01/2012 08:55

I can understand a child with SEN who would be made very anxious by doing a MFL being allowed to drop it.

But dropping a subject "because a NT child isn't very good at it strikes me as being a bit misguided, to be honest. Anything that closes a child's options down, and closes a door they might not even know yet that they might want to go through is something to be considered very carefully indeed.

cricketballs · 28/01/2012 09:16

but seeker think about the other thing OrmIrian pointed out; by doing the language (if it is an option group) then it could be at the detriment of achieving a high grade in another subject whereas the language would be a low grade.

I had this with my DS (before the EBacc became an issue). He was hopeless at MFL in KS3 (French and German) and his school pushed for top sets to choice a language in their options. This would have meant that he could not choice a subject he was good at. So the options were force a subject on him where he would achieve E/F (he really was that bad; some students just don't have the aptitude for MFL) or allow him to do a subject he enjoyed and could realistically achieve a B grade in?

So we did fight it and we won and he did achieve the B grade (and has gone on to study this at A level).

However op, if your DD is on course for A*-C in Maths, English and the humanity subject you may have a battle on your hands due to the EBacc affecting the league tables...

Dustinthewind · 28/01/2012 09:27

Mine dropped MFL although they are compulsory at his school for the majority of children. Agree completely with IndigoBell (yet again) Mine is able but also on the SEN register and we used that to negotiate with.

seeker · 28/01/2012 09:56

I am very old and very old fashioned- I don't think you have to have an aptitude for languages to get a B at GCSE! Not liking them is a different thing- but I would image most people do at least one GCSE they don't like.

And not having a MFL might very well close doors that, as I said, they don't even know they want to go through.

cricketballs · 28/01/2012 10:17

the reason why there are different grades available is to cover the different abilities which is where the aptitude/ability does come in; my ds would have had absolutely no chance of gaining anything near a C in a language (he struggled in English whereas Maths/science etc he had a natural flair).

Whilst I understand he closed doors, I preferred to have him happy and achieving rather than miserable studying a subject he had no chance in! The unis he is looking at/courses he is thinking of doing do not require an MFL (he was never going to be looking at RG/Oxbridge) and I would like to think that we were all realistic about his future and the actual routes that would be open to him

quirrelquarrel · 28/01/2012 10:30

It is a valuable GCSE to have in terms of applying to uni (won't give you an outright advantage, but I think lots of unis are thinking of making it a basic requirement, like UCL has done) and looks good on your CV (according to old deputy head- someone was singled out above all the others when going for a job because he had a D in GCSE French)- but in terms of real usefulness, it's rubbish. Really bad for breadth, ignores large swathes of the language (grammar!), you memorise a page of set sentences and get an A*. You do not have to be good/quick at things like languages to get a decent grade at GCSE, really, people overestimate it because "it's languages, oh verb tables and learning by rote, scary"- it's not like that in the slightest. So, it looks good but isn't worth much at all.

Wouldn't it help your DD's anxiety if she put in the effort, learnt strategies to cope with it and came out with an A grade, though? I don't know how much it is affecting her obviously, so don't want to seem like I'm minimising her difficulties. But you don't have to eliminate the stressful triggers, it'll just mask the problems in the end. I dreaded certain lessons, practically crying with boredom, some nasty bullies, teacher unsympathetic and overstretched, but I wouldn't have been any happier if someone told me I could drop it.

glaurung · 28/01/2012 10:44

languages are not dd's thing, but I pursuaded her to take French even though she would have scored higher in another subject. All her predicted grades for her other subjects are one or two grades higher than her French one and last year her teacher was even quite sceptical about her even meeting her predicted grade in French, and I was rather regretting encouraging her to do it (the alternative was ICT which she is good at but has no interest in).

However, as others have said language gcses have changed. It is now more of a memory test than a test of language skill imo. For instance for both the speaking and writing tasks they are told what they have to do (almost exactly) in advance and can prepare what to say or write - if they put some effort into this at home they can form a very good answer with the aid of books/internet etc. Then a child with a good memory can memorize an answer and score well even if they don't have a very good grasp of the language. The reading and listening exams are not too difficult either especially if a child is a good guesser. Dd has just one more writing task and one more speaking one to do now, and provided she puts as much effort into them as she did to the first ones she will probably get as good a grade in French as her other subjects, even though she's not really that good at it.

Trix2323 · 28/01/2012 10:44

If you do have to go for an MFL option even when it doesn't seem to be a good option for your DC, would you have the option to send your DC - perhaps in conjunction with a friend - to a language course for a even just a week in the holidays? IME motivation is one of the key issues in learning a language. It is pretty hard to get motivated about, say, Spanish when everyone that is known to you speaks English. A language is first and foremost about spoken communication. A one-week course for secondary-school students in, say, Salamanca, could give an enormous boost to your DC's level in the language, and is an enormous boost towards motivation, in that seeing a language in action somehow makes it seem relevant and useful.

Aptitude matters too and varies enormously between individuals. But at all levels of aptitude, exposure to the language can be a boost to ability and will certainly help in being able to answer GCSE questions.

seeker · 28/01/2012 11:00

Oh god I really am old and curmudgeonly. I am struggling not to say oh for heaven's sake you don't need flair or aptitude to get a C in any subject at GCSE, you just need to do a bit of work!

Trix2323 · 28/01/2012 11:07

If French rather than Spanish is the choice, here is a website that organises a three-course for students from age 14 (staying with host families) in July:

www.langueonze.com/cours_francais/juniors_francais_vacances.html

My guess would be, a student doing such a course in the summer before the GCSE year would likely get a grade A at GCSE, and the whole revision and preparation thing would be much easier and less tense.

You may find shorter and hence less expensive options if you look further. If you like the idea of her attending a class and but not living with a host family, there are other, (sometimes low-cost) options for you as a family to stay somewhere in France and have the dd attend classes and language-rich activities.

seeker · 28/01/2012 11:08

But if I had been going to say anything so irritating, I would have added that I am talking about NT children, obviously.

Trix2323 · 28/01/2012 11:12

Seeker, OP was talking about her dd not liking languages, and this being her weaker subject. It is not easy to work for a GCSE in a subject that you don't like, particulary when there are another nine or so subjects to work at around the same time.

I am convinced that exposure to a language makes learning it much easier than otherwise.

seeker · 28/01/2012 11:16

Of course it's easier to do well in subjects you enjoy. But that doesn't mean ou can't also do well in the subjects you don't.

cricketballs · 28/01/2012 11:20

seeker; my ds was/is not afraid of hard work but he really can't do languages! He seems to have a mental block (even when it comes to simple english speaking as well ) and we were far more concerned that he would enjoy his studies and therefore be more likely to continue than to push something he could not/wouldn't do. (I speak as a teacher of a subject when I see student's pushed into to it and they do not work as hard as those who enjoy it no matter how hard I/parents try)

Flip

1 2 3