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Secondary education

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Original poster

Is it possible to drop a so-called "compulsory" subject for GCSE?

54 replies

NigellasGuest · 27/01/2012 11:42

DD hates languages, is not good at French or Spanish and already feels she's not going to do well in her chosen language for GCSE (currently in year 9 and in the process of choosing options for September).

She has mentoring / counselling privately, and also in school (so school are aware of issues) to deal with anxiety. My feeling is that things will be made worse by being forced to do a language. And that may have an adverse affect on her other GCSE's.

Does anyone know where I stand? Can they MAKE her do either French or Spanish? TIA

OP posts:
startail · 28/01/2012 11:30

DD1 is dyslexic and had no trouble convincing her careers mistress that doing French was a non starter.
(i know with support dyslexics can succeed at MFL, but her set behave so badly she is already behind.)

Fortunately school only strongly encourage the EBAC not force it.

I suspect her school is well aware, that whatever the Government may wish, their MFL teaching isn't yet unto scratch.

I suspect this is the case in many state schools and has been for the last 25 years.
(My peers and I checked and double checked University entrance requirements and then told our hopeless French department where to go. We trashed their time table tooGrin)

nagynolonger · 28/01/2012 11:46

My younger ones all did french but their 26 year old DB was allowed to drop it and use the time to do extra english. He was/is dyslexic and then MFL were compulsary at 14+. We had to struggle to get him removed from MFL it mucked up their timetabling, but it was right for him.

OrmIrian · 28/01/2012 19:08

I don't give a stuff whether DS does MFL or not TBH. I would have cared if he couldn't do music which is a subject he loves and excels at.He couldn't do both Not really an issue as far as I was concened.

seeker · 28/01/2012 20:28

But how could a school have timetables music against a MFL? Particularly as a MFL is a compulsory subject in state schools

OrmIrian · 28/01/2012 21:12

You have a limited no of options and only 2 of them contain Mfls. The child has only studied one and that clashes with another subject important to that child. And if mfl is compulsory it should be ringfenced same as maths, science and engl- it isn't as yet.

nagynolonger · 28/01/2012 21:22

But is a MFL compulsary at 14+ now? My youngest did it but I know of others that dropped french. My 15 yearold is doing french but he is also doing music which he loves. For him that ment no space for history or geography. I know he won't get Mr Gove's English Bac but he is on course for A*/A in all gcses so I'm sure he'll be OK.

thenightsky · 28/01/2012 21:26

Same as startail... my DD is dyslexic and pleaded at a choices meeting... 'Sir, I'm totally shit at English, please don't make me do French'.

It would have been a waste of her time and theirs.

She did textiles instead and is now sitting in a lovely job where she designs work uniforms (she went on to do a degree in textiles).

Quattrocento · 28/01/2012 21:33

Get her some supplementary french teaching, maybe? As others have said, 'tis probably better to face the unpleasant things and dealing with it successfully may give her a boost

Am in the same situation here. DD's worst subject is Spanish. Her second worst subject is French. She has to do a MFL, and the MFL is likely to be a blot on her GCSE grades. I'm doing the teaching myself rather than find a good language teacher because they seem to be hard to find.

RandomMess · 28/01/2012 21:34

Seeker that is really funny, often people don't like languages because they find them so difficult! Yes I got an A at GCSE - I had tuition to get me through, I rote learnt virtually everything.

I have realised that I probably have mild Auditory processing Disorder hence making it hard work etc I would never want anyone to be forced to do a MFL when they have no aptitude for it - you sit there not understanding what is being said and knowing your pronounciation is absolutely appalling - it is utterly utterly humiliating and not to do with not working for it.

TheHumancatapult · 28/01/2012 21:41

ds2 did options in year 8 and the first thing he did was huge sigh of relief and droped language /art and music and drama .

which gave him room for triple science .georgraphy and History as well as Engish lang and lit .maths and aploed maths and he took RS as a full gcse

Quattrocento · 28/01/2012 21:56

I agree with Seeker about not having to do to much work to get a B or a C at GCSE, but a B or a C at GCSE may in certain circumstances be viewed as a blot, no?

bruffin · 28/01/2012 23:03

My Ds,s results will be blotted by his German gcse. Predicated all A/A* except German C/D
He took a Mfl because he knew that universities wanted a language, but they also want A/a*s, so it may have stopped him getting what he wants. Thankfully he has had a change of mind over career and the course he wants is not interested in his gcse although still RG university.

NonnoMum · 28/01/2012 23:07

Write to Mr Gove.
He introduced the Ebac (which includes a language) in order to try to return to a 1950s curriculum where children such as yours would be written off.

Fair? No. True? Yes.

(PS - I'm sure your DC is a fabulous, sweet, clever and wonderful child but Mr Gove has written her off already)

NonnoMum · 28/01/2012 23:08

BTW - what may be compulsory in one school may not be in another. It's how they sort out their timetable and pander to the league tables.

startail · 28/01/2012 23:32

thenightskyGrin
It's lovely to hear stories of other people's dyslexic DCs succeeding at something they enjoy.
DD wants to do something scientific and needs to work hard next year to do well enough in maths and science to be allowed to do separate sciences next year.
The only way she'd stand a chance at French would be to get a tutor and not take music.
She's done singing lessons for years and various choirs and loves it, so this just wouldn't have made sense.

bruffin · 29/01/2012 07:59

DS yr11 has a spld as well and I think that mfl exams nowadays which concentrate on learning passages of script make things twice as hard for children with dyslexic problems.

My DD (yr9) came home and told me proudly how she had learnt all her italian for a written test last week and only forgot the last sentence, but DS just can't learn things that way.

Abra1d · 29/01/2012 08:03

'Her special need is her anxiety.'

I hope this is a wind-up. Seriously?

IndigoBell · 29/01/2012 08:10

Abra1d No. Not a wind-up. I'm assuming her anxiety is seriously bad.

It may not be, but given that she is receiving counselling for it, that is what I have assumed.

A SEN is any kind of Special educational need, not to be confused with SN (Special Needs)

So if, for example, you had a phobia of exams, and were unable to sit exams in the hall with everyone else, this would constitute a special educational need which had to be accommodated.

If she needs school to do something different for her in order for her to learn, then she has SEN.

Count yourself lucky you don't know enough about anxiety or SEN to know this.

Abra1d · 29/01/2012 10:10

'you don't know enough about anxiety or SEN to know this.'

You know that how?

Sorry, but there are many, many revision guides and free websites for MFLs. My daughter was struggling with German. She found a solution to an issue with the pronunciation of 'difficult' words by listening to a native speaker speak them on a free access website. Then she recorded herself saying them and puts them on her iPod. She listens to the words on the way to school when she has a test. That's the way she learns. She developed the system herself and it has revolutionised the results she gets. My son, by contrast, not a natural linguist, writes words and phrases out again and again and again to learn them. Then we test him. I have devoted hours of time each week to helping him in the evenings.

There is so much material available to help children with languages. And getting a grade C is not difficult if you are moderately intelligent. I think instead of encouraging the OP's daughter to ease out of tackling something challenging we should be finding ways to help her face the challenge.

IndigoBell · 29/01/2012 10:39

And are your children recieving counselling regarding their anxiety?

This is nothing to do with how easy or hard languages at GCSE are.

And it is certainly nothing to do with how intelligent the OPs child is.

Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 10:40

We speak and read a number of languages in this house, OH is a linguist and DD is following in his footsteps. We have numerous friends and relations who are native speakers and would be delighted to assist.
I'm a teacher with an interest in SN and SEN. I reckon I'm the only NT in the house.
DS finds learning other languages so close to impossible that it was a sensible and reasonable accommodation to allow him to drop both of his.

'Sorry, but there are many, many revision guides and free websites for MFLs.'
You really don't know much about sn, based on the twaddle you are writing.
Please feel free to give further evidence to counter the first impression.

seeker · 29/01/2012 10:53

When I derailed this thread to say that kids should not be encouraged to drop subjects because they find them hard I did specifically say that I was referring to NT children only.

Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 10:58

My response was to Abra1d, seeker, who I think has missed that point and is struggling with understanding the diversity of SEN that should be catered for within MS education as much as possible.
Which is why she doesn't understand how anxiety can be considered a SEN.

Abra1d · 29/01/2012 13:53

My son has received counselling from CAHMS, yes. At no point did the counsellor suggest that his problem (and there is one, a big one) should mean that he avoided the situation that causes the stress. She gave him strategies to use and sent him out there.

My husband this morning sat a test for a job. He was up during the night being sick he was so nervous. He has been out of work since April. if we don't get a job for him soon we are in deep trouble.

Perhaps I should have told him not to bother because he was so anxious. But you know what? We had some strong coffee and I told him I knew he could do it and that other people would also be struggling. He has finished the test now and it was bloody awful. But what was the alternative?

Life is tough.

Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 14:24

Picking your battles is one useful strategy I often use.
DS is now doing A levels at college, has a good friendship group and several hobbies that involve a level of social interaction. That required huge effort and pushing beyond his comfort zone, and it was worth the effort.
But to do all that effort in order to learn French? His strengths were better employed enabling him to learn how to function in an NT world.
He does not suffer from anxiety or depression, but I have seen those factors cripple others to the point where they go into survival mode and are incapable of functioning other than at a basic level whilst the stress continues.
Sometimes a strong coffee and a website or two, and a pep talk aren't enough. What's the alternative?
In one case I know, complete fugue, in two others, suicide.