level required for Scholarships

[Idratherbemuckingout]

Hi, anyone any idea what sort of level is required for a scholarship? For example, at Common Entrance age (13). I see from other postings (very interesting reading) that Eton for example requires 70% at CE just to get in, but other schools might only require 55%.
So I am assuming their Scholarship levels would also be different? What sort of level would they be can anyone hazard a guess.
Second Question.
Do all the boys who are entered for the Eton pretest only go in for it because they have been deemed capable? And are the results therefore pretty close grouped? So, for example, a boy who got a conditional place would not be that far ahead of a reserve placed boy who would himself not be THAT far ahead of the boys who came in the last 50?
So, if your son did reasonably well in the Eton pretest but didn't get a place (say, about half way down the field), would it mean he might still be capable of a scholarship in a less demanding school?
Sorry, complicated question.

You might want to look at Radley's website which has previous scholarship papers. Radley's CE pass rate is still at the 55% mark for CE (and, boy, do they get great GCSE and A level results).

I would think that a boy who did not get through Eton's pretest could win a scholarship elsewhere. In fact, thinking about it, a boy from my son's prep school did (to Bradfield).

My DP had a scholarship to Wellington. He's not very bright

As most of the candidates are from prep schools their headmasters will be best placed to suggest which other schools they would be suited to. But to answer a slightly different question, I know a significant number of boys who have failed to get into one of the local super-selective grammar schools, but have gone on to get a relatively generous scholarship (25%+) at a selective independent. So yes, someone who is not good enough for one school will be incentivised to join another.

To answer your other question, there will always be children who are put in for exams for which they have no chance at all. In any selection exercise there will be a group of children who are almost dead certs to be selected, a group who have no chance, and then a group in the middle where careful thought is needed to determine who is selected or not.

It will vary from school to school. Each school grades the papers slightly differently too - some do A (iirc 85%+) others don't and the same mark might be given an A. ds got a scholarship (not to Eton I hasten to add!) with predominantly A and A marks whereas B or Cs (55%-ish plus) should have got a place and he was by no means top. There are specific Scholarship papers sat at some of the top public schools and those may be at a different level (ie Level 3 Latin) and syllabus to CE. I would think you would get clusters of similar marks just like for 11+, where a single mark could be the difference between an offer or none.

I know lots of boys who applied to Eton who stood no chance because they were not bright enough. I also know some boys who got into Eton who are less bright than those on the waiting list and also have very little else to offer. The KS at Eton is around A'level standard with scope for applicants to answer in a way beyond A'level. Radley scholarship papers are not very hard nor would schools such as Stowe but the schools turning co-ed now have girls competing alongside boys and that drives up standards.

Some school use scholarship papers written by the same board that writes CE the very a academic - Win Coll Eton St Paul's write their own. I understand that Win Coll entrance exam for non scholars is roughly the same as Harrows scholarship exam for 13 ye olds their scholarship exam A level standard. Then some of the less academic don't have a specific exam they take the one with the highest marks in their entrance exam. As already said you're head is the best person to ask.

Do any of you know about Harrow School sixth form scholarships?

Sorry can't comment on individual schools but logically it would seem that the less academic schools (still v. academic as they are top independent schools) will have a lower pass mark and a lower scholarship mark. Eg at my DCs prep some go on to get into the likes of Eton and Win Coll however there is an indie secondary in the next town which traditionally gets the boys that didn't get into the top public schools. Out of these boys two or three will get scholarships. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's all relative!

As an addition it also depends on where you live. Top schools in areas with less competition for places at schools (north east/yorkshire area) generally have lower pass marks and scholarship marks as less children apply for each place. So have a shop around and see which schools have the lowest pass marks and scholarship marks. Be prepared for those with lower marks to be further down the league tables though!

My son is home educated, in Year 6 equivalent now. Came midway in the Eton test, would've needed a bursary if he'd got a place, and we have other schools he is doing exams for, but now looking at CE at 13, for which I would prepare him. He's been home edded for last three years, so thinking now that I haven't done too bad a job if he came midway in the Eton field.

So I don't have a headmaster to ask, and I find it very hard to be objective with him, as some days I think he is super bright, others I despair!
Really hard for a mum to assess her own child.
He is a secure level 6, doing level 7 maths now.
He CAN do brilliant English essays, but on the other hand, sometimes they are rubbish.
Hard for a child to work for his own mum.
VR good, NVR a bit lower standard.
Doing Latin, very good indeed at French already, reads in French, speaks it well.
Loves History, Archaeology etc and Science.

Idratherbemuckingout He will have to be EXELLENT in basically everything. If he is applying for the King sholarship you have to remember the type of people who have got it; Boris Johnson for example. Do you think he could ever be as clever as that? here are every single past paper for all the subjects that Kings scholars sit: www.etoncollege.com/KSpapers.aspx

I'm getting a bit confused not your fault I've had a difficult day at work! Is you DS sitting CE or a scholarship exam? Where are you looking at? I take it your son did not get into Eton but plenty of bright ones don't its a very sterile admission process.
There quite a few of us who are quite knowledgable on independent schools but I think we're going to need a bit more specific info if we're going to help you.

1. He did the Eton pretest and came out about half way down the pack, so didn't get a place or on the reserve list. Not too bothered.
2. He is doing other entrance exams, next one is just the one exam for entry in 2012 into Year 7, and they give the best a scholarship.
3. We are thinking of entry at 13 if he doesn't get this place, via CE or Scholarships. Got a list of possibles.

But I think you've answered me really - in that several of you think that performing that well at Eton in their very hard test is good enough perhaps for a scholarship elsewhere.

Between 11 and 13, kids are starting to have their own minds. At the same time, school curriculum migrates to KS3 where more self-thought and logics are required.

DS school seems a bit cautious about predicting the KS, not only because of its competitiveness, but also because not all kids successfully keep their pace from KS2 to KS3. Careful monitoring and right stimulations would be needed, according to DS' head of study.

I'm not sure how you knew "came out about half way down the pack". Having seen boys with Eton's conditional admissions, the Eton pretest may not just reflect individual's academic ability, rather, combination of IQ and EQ tests, I guess.

We know many who quite a few who don't get offered places who are very bright and able including two who then went on and got scholarships to Eton and others who've got scholarships into other schools. Eton is looking for a certain type of boy very intelligent but not a genius and one who can hit the ground running and make the most of what the school has offer.
My DS was certainly clever enough to try for a scholarship but its not just about being clever its about whether your child is prepared to put in the extra effort as well. My nephew got one to a good London day school but my SIL will tell you he's clever but not a genius but very compliant motivated and pushable. You might find it easier as you home school him but certainly those at prep schools have to be super motivated to apply to attempt a scholarship into the more academic schools.

Also bear in mind registrations for many schools at 13+/CE entry will have already closed for dc in Year 6 and some pretests in January. Agree the CE Scholarship papers set by ISEB can be very different to normal CE papers and require a different style of teaching and experience - not sure how easy you'd find it to HE for that. Grade B or even C in scholarship level can be the equivalent of an A in CE.

Idrather,

Here are past scholarship papers for Teddy's in Oxford. Far easier than Eton's KS papers and it's an excellent school.

www.stedwards.oxon.sch.uk/exh-past-papers.html

I'm home educating my 12-year-old daughter and have faced similar challenges. I strongly recommend using Galore Park's range of books and especially "So You Really Want to Learn Maths Book 3," when your son is ready to work at that level.

www.galorepark.co.uk/examtype-home_schoolers-3.html

Any boy can enter for the Eton pretest, and the results will not be closely grouped. It's the ones who pass that is important. Eton get many more applications than they have places to fill, so they can set the CE pass rate at 70%.

A scholarship is bringing something different and quirky the table. The CS and schools' own scholarship papers are testing higher learning skills, such as synthesis and evaluation. A boy or girl who capable of getting A-grades on each CE paper may not be scholarship material. A prep school may enter these students for scholarship as a scholarship fail usually still comes with a CE offer. If they do really badly, they will still do CE in June.

As I understand it, at DSs school, the scholarships are awarded on the basis of interview. Potential candidates are flagged up by certain questions on the entrance papers but at interview they identify the boys with the most potential/raw talent and weed out the heavily tutored ones.

Each school is different and it is all based on supply and demand.

"some days I think he is super bright, others I despair!"

You have partially answered your own question. You cannot say with any certainty 'if this, then that' because exam entrants are not automatons: they might play a blinder in an exam one day and then mess up the next exam the following day. No exam or entrance system will ever be an exact science and give a truly 'correct' result.

For this reason I am a firm believer in giving it a go, as long as you are not doing any psychological harm

Thanks everyone. Lastsummer, I do already use the Galore Park books and he is on the Maths book 3 one already and coping well. We did some other books aimed at Years 7 and 8 and he completed them including extension exercises with no trouble. We are using GP for Latin and French too (book one Latin, book two french which is too easy for him but it is helping to go over the grammar and spelling).
I am organised in that I have a longish list of schools I am interested in at age 13 (including St Edwards but thanks anyway) and the dates I need to be registered by. Some Scholarships you do not need to register well in advance for, if that is all you want your child to do.
The beauty of HE is that we can concentrate on what really interests him, and on any little thing he hasn't quite understood or has made a mistake on.

We can also take time off whenever we want.
And I can offer incentives that teachers can't!
Also, I can punctuate his lessons with a bike ride down the road, a dog walk, and a story as he still loves to be read to and I love reading to him.
I'm making it sound like he should stay at home, aren't I? But seriously, it's not that good for him to be constantly at home - he needs to be with boys (and or girls) his own age.
Hence the Scholarship search.
Cross your fingers for him collectively please!

I think I meant 'and girls'! I made it sound like he should go to an all girls school!

Purits is right. DS has just sat the mock scholarship Eton papers this term and he gained 70% on the easier (still very hard) Maths A paper and 95% on Maths B. Who knows what he'll do next time round. I doubt he'll get anywhere near 95% when it really matters and who knows who he'll be up against!

Yes, my DS is doing mock papers at the moment and on Monday he got 97% in one, but yesterday only 72%! I am hoping he can rise to the occasion with the pressure of the exam and that at home he is just being slapdash because he knows it is not important at home. Fingers crossed for your DS in the real exam. He sounds like he should be able to cope if he can pull that extra bit out from time to time.

You can get 15% in Maths and still get a scholarship if you write, say, the best English paper.

Scholarships are decided by a cross-departmental committee. If the English department really want to teach a boy they will argue his case whatever he got in Maths (and vice versa).

Tis true but I doubt many would get 15% in Maths!