Winchester College Sixth form entrance

[eduneering]

Dear Mums.

A boy is sitting the Sixth form entrance exam in WinCol. He's currently in a day inde school and has been doing good. Previous papers are available, but simply doesn't know how deep knowledge the WinCol expect, especially in subjects with essays. Are they generally within secondary schools' curriculum? All I could say is to read newspapers for the current issues in the world.

Suggestions or experience would be appreciated.

I know boys with IQ's above 150 who find it challenging and difficult at Win.

Winchester staff will be well able to challenge boys with this kind of iq as well as they will challenge boys with lower academic ability. It is called differentiation and a fundamental of classroom practice at any school. The idea that a school of any size could be at all homogeneous in terms of ability, attributes or personality of either students or staff is a nonsense that puts off many people.

My post was not intended to engender a sneery attitude to the boys or the school, which I think is a lovely one but the generalisations, pigeonholing and categorising on these boards of children who attend these schools by two or three parents (out of thousands) is misleading to those seeking information .

Top 3% is an IQ of 137 I've been told

And this figure is wrong (if you are using figures from the most commonly used test). I think that having a gifted child might have distorted your idea of iq levels and their distribution in the population. High iqs are not that common so schools take from a wider range than parents appear willing to accept. Otherwise they'd have empty seats. I don't know why I'm typing this as I hate this narrow obsession with iq.

Luckily for those who are interested and have the cash, good schools know full well that in order to teach children, it is easier for educators if they have "enough" iq, but the benefits to both teachers and children, in school and in life, do not increase exponentially as iq increases.

I don't think 137 is that high and I know many kids that appear brighter than my youngest child. Is 137 in the top 10% then?

Way higher than top ten%. "Appearing" bright is not a very scientific test of iq.

Nothing else to offer, except I am astounded at the IQ of 118 and upwards. I always thought of Win college as looking for upwards of 140.

Me too Evilclown. :/

I?m afraid all this talk of IQ score figures is rather meaningless if not misleading.

Put it another way, for example, there is no difference in ?100? and ?212? if we are not told under what scales these figures are being referred to. I am of course, talking about the temperature required for water to boil at sea level in the above example - the former is measured in degrees Centigrade and the latter in degrees Fahrenheit.

Similarly, an IQ of ?148? is no better than one of ?131? - they are the same; both representing the top 2% of the population and the minimum score required to qualify for membership of British Mensa - The High IQ Society, only that the former is measured using the Cattell III B method and the latter, the Raven Standard Matrices.

Please note, before anybody makes any wild claims about phenomenal IQ scores, apparently, an adult can only get a maximum IQ of 161 on the Cattell III B test. It is said both Albert Einstein and Prof. Stephen Hawking have the same IQ of 160. But under which scale is the question.

Back to Win Col?s ?118? cohort, if this is with reference to the Cattell III B scales, then I must say this is pretty poor calibre considering 148 is the minimum needed to join British Mensa.

Edit: Young kids are usually measured using the Wechsler Scales.

We have never had our ds's IQ tested. He is a very bright boy who is confident and well rounded, academically, musically and sportingly. We registered an interest with Winchester for 6th form - we were a little late in asking and the school was very helpful. The admissions lady was very nice, Kirsty I think, and extremely helpful. We put in an application and DS wrote a paper to support it. The school wanted to pursue the application and we thought it would have been a good place for ds - he certainly is not scholarship material at his London Day School although he is a classicist and linguist but the school was overwhelmingly welcoming and encouraging although we are far from pushy.

Ultimately, DS refused to take it further because he was and is so happy where he has almost always been. Our overwhelming impression was of a very helpful school that probably would have been pastorally excellent and might have suited DS. His godfather went there and was very very happy having moved from a SW London hot house where he was very very unhappy. Godfather is now late 40's so that news is of course a little out of date.

Marriedinwhite, what a very nice recommendation for Winchester. Just emerging from the school race for son and daughter I can say how shocked I have been that some schools (both private and oversubscribed state) seem to think that snotty and unwelcoming demonstrates how good they are. Fortunately we have found delightful examples, ranging from inner city state schools to poshest, that are very welcoming. Whether they do that because it is good marketing or because they just are that way I can't say but it has influenced all our decisions and what we say about them to other people.

The poorer the quality of the intake compared to the success of the leavers, the better the school. Obviously.

Such quibbles!

That would certainly be true for all schools but they don't go round singing they're super bright and not for the faint-hearted.

Stephen Hawking is St Albans School alumnus.

Lol MrsJ!

"not for the faint-hearted."
When I think about it so many academic schools are not for the faint hearted in fact even the relatively non selective independent schools are also not for the faint hearted now. They all seem to be pushing these children so hard; I worry more about your average child in a non selective but academically ambitious school. We looked at one very well known school thats not desperately selective for DS1 5-6 years ago, contrary to what its beautiful glossy prospectus stated, the head of music openly admitted that music and art was being marginalised out of the curriculum due to the heads obsession with league tables. Many children I meet in my work who attend both independent schools, grammar schools and successful comps/6th form colleges seem exceedingly anxious and feel under a lot of pressure. I'm not sure where this pressure comes from the school, parents or themselves but in my profession we feel mental health problems among girls and boys are rising. I see many more taking overdoes, self harming taking anti depressants than I did when I started working in the 80's. Is it that their worried about jobs, and/or pressure to get into the "right university", getting A*'s. Sadly many from all background also come from homes with problems; divorce death of parent etc. I worry about young people I don't remember it being like this for me.
I'm also not sure where Tim nice but dim goes to school any more to get a decent education that turns him into a thoroughly decent adult even if he's not a rocket scientist.

I don't know where you are Happygardening but I can think of half a dozen school within a 20 mile radius of SW London where Tim (or Tilly) would be very happy. I have a dd, admittedly in the top sets, who is very happy at one and it has done her self esteem tremendous good to be at the top of a mid league school instead of being allowed to bump along the bottom of PHS or WHS.

In the independent sector I only really know about boarding and the last bastion of education for Tim; Milton abbey has a new head who I understand is committed to improving the schools academic results no more lawn mowing and ferreting for its pupils!

What about St John's, Leatherhead. That has a boarding house and I some very happy boys who go there.

Don't know it but Im sure your right but there are quite a few Tims out there so there is a need for more than 1 school.
Milton Abbey was I suspect unique we know of a boy who whilst there found that his métier in life was lawn mowing so spent the whole time mowing its extensive and very beautiful grounds at £11000 a term I not sure how pleased his parents were.
We also know a couple of adults who went there they are all to a man charming and believe that you didn't go there to get an academic education more to develop life skills. Perhaps sadly there is little call for this now.

Well happy my grandparents were awfully upper middle class and had not qualifications at all. My mother was a ballerina with a smattering of O'Levels, I blew public school in the L6 and did a secretarial course and went to finishing school but still ended up as a Eurobond salesman in the City. I'm 51 now, a manager in education and still think it's over-rated except for the top 6%-7% of the population. I come across applicant after applicant with two masters degrees but who are unable to string together a grammatically correct sentence.

Personally, there is far too much pressure on all young people - especially here in SW London. You really don't need a degree to work for a high street bank.

marriedinwhite I think your righr but the problem is that many don't agree and schools have to cater for the majority hence the changes to schools like Milton Abbey and as I've already said the increasing number of children I see with significant mental health problems. Now every one has to get A's and soon it will be A*s a friend the other day was moaning her son is only going to get three B's when I was at a school that was good.

I much prefer people who are well educated than people who have a lot of qualifications. Personally I think that's what one pays for at private schools. The pressure has just become ridiculous. Oddly though, DS is at a SW London leading school and although he pulled down 11 A*s it never felt as though the pressure was ridiculous.

Gove warns that fewer pupils will get top grades in future as he begins the long process of cracking down on grade inflation.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087130/Michael-Gove-Expect-fewer-exam-passes-parents-warned.html

*Back to Win Col?s ?118? cohort, if this is with reference to the Cattell III B scales, then I must say this is pretty poor calibre considering 148 is the minimum needed to join British Mensa.

Edit: Young kids are usually measured using the Wechsler Scales*

Lordy, I probably shouldn't bring this up again as I don't think anyone truly thinks an iq score is the measure of a child, but as I said in my post, I was referring to the 'most commonly used one", which as peteneras has stated is the Weschler. So an iq of around 120 is good. (Malcolm Gladwell humorously states in "Outliers" that an iq of over 120 is a waste as this level allows most educational/career aspirations to be fulfilled, assuming conscientious hard work.

Wow, well I don't know on which scale but we all did an on-line test: I was 127, DS was 144 and DD was 139. DS is uber bright, DD has always been regarded as top average although has been on a roll since secondary, I was regarded as thick at grammar school. DH tutted and humphed and refused. DH has a brain approximately the size of a planet. Not sure it means anything but me and the dc felt quite smug.

I think it's so funny the way that these threads always result in the same handful of posters peddling their prejudices.

But on the IQ thing, lots of very able children, with talents in particular subjects, won't necessarily score incredibly highly on a Full Scale IQ test - they may be brilliant at humanities, but score relatively low on some of the spatial tests or coding tests. Or they may have processing or working memory shortfalls.

I think IQ is a narrow measure of 'intelligence', even the sort of intelligence that's prized by highly academic schools.