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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Winchester College Sixth form entrance

83 replies

eduneering · 16/12/2011 12:16

Dear Mums.

A boy is sitting the Sixth form entrance exam in WinCol. He's currently in a day inde school and has been doing good. Previous papers are available, but simply doesn't know how deep knowledge the WinCol expect, especially in subjects with essays. Are they generally within secondary schools' curriculum? All I could say is to read newspapers for the current issues in the world.

Suggestions or experience would be appreciated.

OP posts:

Colleger · 19/01/2012 09:55

I read an inspection report and it states 3/5 are in the top 5% academically not just the top 25%! It also states that the intake is well above selective maintained schools i.e. grammar schools.

Regardless of that, I was discussing sixth form entry which is very, very different from 13+ entry. Can we never have a discussion based on information that the OP requests? There are members on here that know a lot about Winchester and MrsJ, you have no dealings with the school. Have you ever visited it?

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 19/01/2012 10:08

And here is Eton's equivalent ISC report which shows that the intake in terms of raw ability (MidYis) is the same as that of selective maintained schools.

www.etoncollege.com/files/full.pdf here

Which given what Eton achieves with its cohort, surely makes Eton the much better school verus Win College?

My two teen sons are in the top 2% of MidYis scores, so they would easily have been intelligent enough for Winchester College. BUT there's the not small matter of the £30K pa per capita fees. Oh yes, and the fact that they had never learnt any latin at their state primary school, nor could they offer German or Spanish in substitution for the absence of Latin.

These are undoubtedly excellent schools but their pupils aren't mostly exceptional, they are just bright with rich parents or parents sufficiently motivated to have secured funded preparatory places in order to be able to offer Latin etc. They intake is not brighter than those going into Henrietta Barnett etc. They may well emerge better educated but let's please stop perpetuating the myth that the intake is in any way exceptional.

Colleger · 19/01/2012 10:53

MrsJ, what are you going on about? This is not relevant to sixth form entrance and I can tell, you now that they want boys in the top 0.001% for the sixth for . No one said it was the best or was comparing it to Henrietta Barnett (?) but we are discussing standards for SIXTH FORM ENTRY!!!

Colleger · 19/01/2012 10:55

P.S. Why do you go on about how bright your sons are in relation to, "they could have got into X,Y and Z?" Don't worry, you're not a bad parent for not sending them, if you're feeling guilty!

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 19/01/2012 11:35

Colleger - Fair cop re sixth form. And sorry to OP for hijack. But you do perpetuate a myth that perhaps discourages people from applying to those schools. I very much doubt the few places on offer in the sixth form are reserved for the top 0.001% of the population but of course I have no way of refuting what you say. I would guess if you are in the top 5% of MidYis scores and have had a rounded and solid education to date, you will be in with a good shout.

Colleger · 19/01/2012 11:47

Top 3% is an IQ of 137 I've been told. This is not amazing but bright. How can you prove the intake is no brighter than those at HB? I can't prove it so how can you comment? Let's not forget a child only has to sit some NVR/VR and maybe some English and Maths for grammar school and I've not met one child who hasn't had intensive coaching for grammar school, and who really shouldn't be there.

I doubt someone in the top 5% would get in unless they were planning to go onto uni to study music and were exceptional musicians.

Happygardening · 19/01/2012 12:27

Those already at Win Coll now have to get a minimum of 7 A*'s to go into the sixth form. I understand the competition for the places for new entrants is very fierce.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 19/01/2012 12:39

HappyGardening - Lots of people get 7A and more in GCSE at grammar schools. And plenty in comps too. What do Win Coll do with anyone who fails to get the 7A at GCSE becuase they won't find that out until August and then sixth form starts just a couple of weeks later do they just abandon them? How many leave in the sixth form and how many arrive?

TalkinPeace2 · 19/01/2012 12:55

all FASCINATING but irrelevant.
Winchester do very well with very bright boys at huge expense.
Nuff said.

I'd be interested to hear what they do to make the 6th form intake feel included in the very tight house system

Colleger · 19/01/2012 12:56

Lots of maintained schools do the same thing Mrs J, even your precious St Albans. Maybe not with 7 A* but there will be a cut off.

TheMead · 19/01/2012 13:02

Unless exceptional, kids' potential is considered pretty equal. It could be academic, music, or sports, etc. If they have the same results in the school exam, some perform half of their potential while others needs 100% efforts. This is where IQ or equvalent test comes in. Also, kids' attitude is important, seen from interview process. Hence, there is no single measure someone's ability and potential. Many 13+ entrance, as well as 11+, is concise form of those. This is what DS' director of study once told us.

I don't think DS has exceptional IQ. If so, school would've told us.

volumnia · 19/01/2012 14:51

TheMead seems to have a measured view, from the horse's mouth, of what is needed

Upon enquiring, I was told by member of academic staff at Winchester that to cope comfortably, it might be helpful for a boy to have an iq (yes, blunt instrument, he acknowledged ) somewhere in the region of 118 upwards.

Some will be better, some might be lower, some will have other attributes. In "old parlance" 90 to 110 is average, 110 to 118 is high average. So around top quartile?

Mightn't it be best for a parent to go direct to an education professional to see the standard required?

peteneras · 19/01/2012 15:29

One hundred and eighteen and upwards! Is that all?

That?s just a shade over the average IQ of 110?ish. Most grammar kids in my area would tip 125 without sweat. But I was given to understand Win Col is ?not for the faint-hearted??

Colleger · 19/01/2012 15:35

118?! That surprises me!

Colleger · 19/01/2012 15:36

I know boys with IQ's above 150 who find it challenging and difficult at Win.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 19/01/2012 18:51

Perhaps they find the pomposity and seriousness challenging and difficult rather than the work itself. Not to mention having to do all those sweats.

Happygardening · 19/01/2012 19:21

This endless back and forth argument about Win Coll's selectiveness, exam results %of Oxbridge entry or for that matter anywhere else be it Harrow St Albans Eton or Henrietta Barnet or Billericay comprehensive is becoming exceedingly tedious. I admit I'm as much to blame as the next MN poster. Win Coll for my DS is a highly academic, intellectually challenging and uniquely civilised school all combined with a totally house centric enormously high standard of pastoral care. Its ethos suits both him and myself I admit its not everyones cup of tea being rather old fashioned and unworldly but for him it works. Frankly I don't give a stuff what any of you others think about it, none of you has a DS at Win Coll today so the reality is that know absolutely nothing it. I cripple myself to pay the school fees but for me it is worth every penny and I can tell you quite categorically if he wasn't there I would waste my money on any other school be it Eton St Albans or St Elsewhere or send him to a grammar school because for him nothing would compare with Win Coll. I would send him to my excellent local state comp.

Happygardening · 19/01/2012 19:26

Oh God typing error:
I cripple myself to pay the school fees but for me it is worth every penny and I can tell you quite categorically if he wasn't there I would not waste my money on any other school be it Eton St Albans or St Elsewhere or send him to a grammar school because for him nothing would compare with Win Coll. I would send him to my excellent local state comp.

peteneras · 19/01/2012 19:34

That's assuming all those schools mentioned would accept him in the first place, of course.

Happygardening · 19/01/2012 19:46

Being a well balanced but very intelligent child without any hang ups in life they probably wouldn't accept him.

Colleger · 19/01/2012 19:47

Well I for one don't believe there are many 118's at Win but I agree with HG, it's getting boring now. We all think we're right but we got it out our systems weeks ago and now we are trying to answer the OP's post not compare schools. If someone wants to compare schools then start a thread.

Actually, please don't!

Greythorne · 19/01/2012 19:52

One thing I notice on the Eton versus Harrow versus WinColl threads is that the much vaunted public school self-confidence and assurance is seriously lacking in the parents. I hope your boys do not sugfer with your crippling inability to accept criticism and your need for one up manship and having the last word.

peteneras · 19/01/2012 20:35

This is not an Eton versus Harrow versus WinCol thread.

This is strictly a Win Col thread - at least that's what I understand it to be.

OP, obviously frightened by all the 'super academic', 'not for the faint-hearted' claim of Win Col is being reassured by some MNetters (me included) not to be discouraged in going for the extrance exam. Well, she shouldn't be when the horse's mouth has confirmed that the calibre of Win Col's cohort is around the 118'ish IQ.

I cannot help if insecure parent(s) were to come and try to turn a perfectly reasonable thread into a public school tug-of-war.

Summermeadow · 19/01/2012 20:41

Eduneering

DS is at WinColl (not sixth form so I can't help with the academic selection side) . However , making a working assumption he is reasonably personable and has a few interests , I would not worry about him fitting in.

I think the House think will actually help - Once he is seeing people from the house for breakfast , lunch , dinner & free time in the house it won't be long before he gets to know people. When the boys are new in the first year they are all assigned someone whose job it is to make sure they know where they are going , explain stuff etc so I am sure the Housemaster will find someone to show him the ropes. There are huge numbers of extra- curric. things so he will have a good shot at finding boys with similar interests to him. Also from what I see the boys are nice. The older boys are good with DS where he has eg joined a Society of mixed years. The Housemaster will be keeping an eye out for him to begin with I would think. Also the boys are very proud of their houses and once he is in one he will become "part of the family " so to speak.

So not an expert - this is only based on observation but if he gets a place , I personally wouldn't worry about the fitting in. He will be a bit apprehensive I guess , but consider me a non scientific survey of 1 who thinks he will be OK.

Happygardening · 19/01/2012 21:07

In the 6 th form boys either share a room or have a single room my DS says the boy who joined his house in the 6 th form this year was put in a double room to help him settle and make friends which apparently he has done very quickly. As said above their is tremendous loyalty to your house and this also helps all new comers.

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