Foul bevaviour at previously fantastic cofe school - teachers' advice welcome

[sparklersmum]

My child attends a cofe secondary school with an incredibly good reputation. Now in Y8. The year seems to have a lot of dysfunctional and disruptive personalities. There are up to half a dozen girls who are loud, insolent, bullies. They have interrupted lessons, they have sworn at teaching staff. There were several complaints last year and this resulted in a bit of a shuffle and things seemed to get better for a few weeks this term.

However, things have gone from bad to worse. One girl (age 12) went missing last summer, all over the local papers, and was with her 16 year old boyfriend - swanned back into school with a grin. This year there has been a theft (admitted) from another trouble maker and the stolen item was sold on. There doesn't even seem to have been as much as a fixed term exclusion for anyone. There was then retaliation from two trouble makers and no further action from the school. So far the school is content to let these girls disrupt lessons, swear at teachers and spoil an otherwise very nice environment as well as to sanction their behaviour and give criminality and immorality the seal of approval.

I don't think the school's response has been adequate. I don't think it reinforces the family values of the majority and I don't think it is doing anything to protect the school's reputation.

I would have thought theft following the behaviour in the summer should be taken seriously; combined with the disruption and the unrest that has been caused. I also think stonger measures were required than getting the local policeman to come along and have a chat to all the girls about personal safety.

Would be interested in the views of teachers about this. I am stunned that no significant action has been taken at what was until very recently a school with an exceptional reputation for the behavour of its girls. There hasn't been so much as an explanatory letter sent home to parents due to the serious nature of what has been happening. This is a school with seven to eight applications for every place so it isn't as if vacated places couldn't be filled.

In short, girls are more concerned about the latest scandal than learning as well as being very wary about what will happen next. Surely an exclusion or two would benefit learning, benefit the school's reputation and send a message into the local community that if girls can't behave they will not be staying. Surely proper disciplinary action woudl also be supportive of the staff and the fact that they need support to do their job properly in a civilised environment.

Are the governor's accountable for the head's lack of action and should they be exerting more influence? What will happen if someone ends up being assaulted because this bunch of unmanageable pre teens have been allowed to rule unchecked?

Why would the 12 year old girl be excluded for being taken away and abused by a 16 year old?? Thank fuck the school have been understanding enough to allow her to continue her education despite the gossips accusing this child of being some sort of slut.

Oh and I'm a teacher.

If it doesn't happen in the school, it's not up to the school to impose sanctions.

How do you know these children aren't being excluded internally, ie to a nurture room because they have extremely troubled backgrounds?

As far as I can see, the only evidence you have is newspaper reports, gossip and your child's word.

If you're unhappy with your child's education, move them. But only deal in solid evidence, not rumour and hearsay and judginess

If i were you I would make an appointment to speak to a relevent person about the disruption caused specifically to lessons that your DD is in, with dated examples of what you are concerned about.

I would, though, caution against discussing any other issue because you are only party to some of the information concerned and, quite possibly, an awful lot of heresay.

As a teacher, i would say that firstly, no school wants to put up with or ignore poor, disruptive behaviour as it would come back to bite them in results and reputation. Secondly, I also think that there is likely to be a whole load more going on here that would have been put out into the public domain....and quite rightly.

The theft took place on school premises. There were absolute ructions over it and the girl admitted it; also to having sold the item on. After 1/2 term two girls took it into their own hands to retaliate, again on school premises. I agree I don't know the whole story but I know enough to know that the current situation is unacceptable, that there is a minority who are completely out of control and this is not reflected in the the years above or below.

Surely if the children are from dreadful backgrounds then they need to be referred to agencies or schools which have the specialist units to help them and which are not available at a small school. Surely too, a three day exclusion would act as a deterrent and send the message to all that such behaviour will not be tolerated. Also there were terrific problems with this group last year and I would venture that if robust and early action had been taken last year, some of this year's problems might have been avoided. I just don't understand why the education of the majority has to be sacrificed for the dysfunctional and disruptive few.

I'm sorry, you asked for my opinion and I have given it but I cannot comment further because I don't know any of the background facts to this. I don't want to make guesses about what should have happened.

If you were a kid at my school banging on about this (I'm a teacher) I would tell you in no uncertain terms that you have no idea what action is being taken behind the scenes and thus your speculations that poor behaviour goes completely unremarked upon are baseless gossip.

How have you any idea whether they have been referred to specialist agencies or not? If the police are involved or not? If exclusions were put forward and decided against and for what reasons?

You know that the situation is unacceptable, I expect the school is also rather aware, but have far more knowledge of what's going on than you do.

Sounds like a normal school to me, and I am a teacher.

Agree, you have NO clue what is happening. There's this wee thing called confidentiality and no one is going to tell you how these girls are being helped OR punished.

It is not your business. Your daughters education is and I suggest if she is finding her classes disrupted that you make an appointment with the teacher and let them know your child is having difficulty concentrating.

That's true. I teach in a school with an excellent reputation (and an Ofsted outstanding for behaviour) and nothing really strikes me as exceptionally outrageous in the OP (disappearing all summer isn't anything to do with the school). We've got kids who will disrupt lessons, swear at teachers etc. I think all state schools probably do.

This sounds very similar to the situation we were in last year. Previously good school, previously very high standards. Ended up transferring dd to the independent sector. I think some of you teachers should try to walk a mile or two in a caring parent's shoes.

You have my sympathies OP. It isn't good enough and neither is a system that allows it to be perpetuated.

"I think some of you teachers should try and walk a mile in caring parents shoes"

I think some parents should try and walk a mile in the shoes of some of my pupils...

A school has to care for a lot more students than just the ones with nice parents.

If it was a good school, it probably is still a good school, but with some troubled souls in the cohort. I suspect most schools are the same.

Children who have nice parents should not be penalised because they have nice parents either.
I have friends who teach in the state sector and are frustrated with this mentality. A lot of time is spent on children with issues ( I think some parents should try and walk a mile in the shoes of some of my pupils...), a lot of attention is given to bad behaviour and no effort is made towards the well behaved and hard working pupils. How is that fair?
Many Teachers are giving up really, they can?t stand it but they don?t dare to say a word about it in any staff room!

I don't think that's true - we spend lots of time making sure nice kids with good homelives get all the help and support they need. The point is that often that help and support that different kids need is very very different and, as previous posters have said, confidentiality means that parents only see little individual parts without everything that's going on in the background.

Also, remember that lots of pupils who have support at home almost take it for granted, so don't necessarily go home and talk about all the stuff that school gave done to support them; not because they don't notice or aren't grateful but because every day they have adults who help them reach their potential so it isn't worthy if comment, if that makes sense? For them, swearing etc is so out of character that's what they refer to. It's not the same for everyone, that's all I'm saying. If the school I'd outstanding and the OP has been happy up until now then
I'd talk to them about any issues concerning get DD but tryst they know what they're doing with the other pupils.

I'm a teacher and a parent. Whose shoes should I walk in?

Eyore, I think you're the one who will come up with the most sensible and balanced view of all :)

So am I Eeyore...we can share the shoes

"a lot of attention is given to bad behaviour and no effort is made towards the well behaved and hard working pupils. How is that fair?"

How is it fair that some kids are born to nice parents and get huge advantages from having parents interested in their education and some kids get born to arseholes who don't care about them?

This is state education, free to all. And due to inclusion we have to cater for all. If you want an education that only further boosts the life chances of those already privileged by their birth, go private.

As for 'no effort made towards the well-behaved', do they not get a free education and qualifications then? Is that worth nothing to you?

None of these issues are any of your business OP.
If your own child is being disrupted then feel free to discuss that issue with the staff. Otherwise mind your own.

Many Teachers are giving up really, they can?t stand it but they don?t dare to say a word about it in any staff room!

lol at the idea of poor downtrodden teachers huddling in a corner of the staff room but unable to voice their opinion incase the mean senior leadership team do them over!!!

What Pictish said. I'm also a teacher. Nothing odd or unusual in anything listed by the OP

Theft and assault - a UK victim can press charges. All secondary children are over the age of criminal responsibility.

Abusive behaviour etc - school should have disciplinary process that takes time to complete, at end point child is out.

If kid choses to short-circuit the disciplinary process by perpetrating criminal acts, parents have the choice to act or shut up. Have they opted to turn the other cheek?