Foul bevaviour at previously fantastic cofe school - teachers' advice welcome

[sparklersmum]

My child attends a cofe secondary school with an incredibly good reputation. Now in Y8. The year seems to have a lot of dysfunctional and disruptive personalities. There are up to half a dozen girls who are loud, insolent, bullies. They have interrupted lessons, they have sworn at teaching staff. There were several complaints last year and this resulted in a bit of a shuffle and things seemed to get better for a few weeks this term.

However, things have gone from bad to worse. One girl (age 12) went missing last summer, all over the local papers, and was with her 16 year old boyfriend - swanned back into school with a grin. This year there has been a theft (admitted) from another trouble maker and the stolen item was sold on. There doesn't even seem to have been as much as a fixed term exclusion for anyone. There was then retaliation from two trouble makers and no further action from the school. So far the school is content to let these girls disrupt lessons, swear at teachers and spoil an otherwise very nice environment as well as to sanction their behaviour and give criminality and immorality the seal of approval.

I don't think the school's response has been adequate. I don't think it reinforces the family values of the majority and I don't think it is doing anything to protect the school's reputation.

I would have thought theft following the behaviour in the summer should be taken seriously; combined with the disruption and the unrest that has been caused. I also think stonger measures were required than getting the local policeman to come along and have a chat to all the girls about personal safety.

Would be interested in the views of teachers about this. I am stunned that no significant action has been taken at what was until very recently a school with an exceptional reputation for the behavour of its girls. There hasn't been so much as an explanatory letter sent home to parents due to the serious nature of what has been happening. This is a school with seven to eight applications for every place so it isn't as if vacated places couldn't be filled.

In short, girls are more concerned about the latest scandal than learning as well as being very wary about what will happen next. Surely an exclusion or two would benefit learning, benefit the school's reputation and send a message into the local community that if girls can't behave they will not be staying. Surely proper disciplinary action woudl also be supportive of the staff and the fact that they need support to do their job properly in a civilised environment.

Are the governor's accountable for the head's lack of action and should they be exerting more influence? What will happen if someone ends up being assaulted because this bunch of unmanageable pre teens have been allowed to rule unchecked?

' How is it fair that some kids are born to nice parents and get huge advantages from having parents interested in their education and some kids get born to arseholes who don't care about them?' THE NICE KIDS SHOULD BE PENALISED THEN?

It is a shame that the nice parents who pay taxes are told that their children are having a free education and they should be happy with the bare min or get out. It is not free if they are paying taxes! However, it is almost always free for the others...
ENVY?
I am a teacher as well

' I think some of you teachers should try to walk a mile or two in a caring parent's shoes'
I couldn't agree more.

My first school (I'm also a teacher) was a lovely, all-girls C of E school with an excellent reputation.

We had more teenage pregnancies and bullying there than anywhere else I've worked. I also dealt with more sexual abuse issues there (this may be pure chance, or because I was a young, sweet teacher and no child will tell me anything now I'm a wizened old hag) than in the rest of my schools put together.

OP, I'm afraid that this sounds like a mixture of hearsay, exaggerated gossip from Year 8 girls and ordinary school life. However, there are two issues here:

1. The school is rubbish. Their intake has changed and they have no idea how to deal with it.
2. (and more likely) You don't know what's going on behind the scenes. There is certainly no way that if the 12 year old was in the papers etc. that there isn't a very high level of social services involvement. Trust me, she will have already had and be having loads more of external agency involvement (FYI, with my CP background, I would certainly be picking her up as a likely victim of abuse. Somebody else will certainly have done the same). Similarly, no child would get away with a PROVEN theft without an exclusion....unless there is more to the issue than you know about.

OP, I would be very certain of your facts and have evidence about lessons being disrupted that specifically impacts on your child before you head into school to complain (otherwise we'd definitely mark you down as a nosy old biddy, to be frank!)

pastoral, suggesting that nice kids only get the 'bare minimum' is quite an insult to hardworking teachers who put on extra-curricular activities, revision sessions, school trips etc etc etc. As a teacher, are you saying you only give nice kids the bare minimum? I certainly don't.

"It is not free if they are paying taxes!"
Take the actual contribution that their taxes makes to their child's education and see exactly how much of a teacher's time they could actually afford.

If the troubled kids were only given the 'bare minimum' that you want them to have, then what hope for them? Screwed by their family life, ignored by the state. Will they become nice productive members of the adult population do you think?

"Surely if the children are from dreadful backgrounds then they need to be referred to agencies or schools which have the specialist units to help them and which are not available at a small school"

translation

Get the proles away from my child - NOW!

"Surely if the children are from dreadful backgrounds then they need to be referred to agencies or schools which have the specialist units to help them and which are not available at a small school"

Chuck 'em in a cell and lock away the key already?

Giving a bare minimum is no good for anyone, going the extra mile is far better for all, don't you think?
Wasting time on kids who crave negative attention, don't want to learn and are rude has no benefit...
We all know that good. hard working pupils are being used in every classroom as TAs almost! Not only they are getting the bare minimum but they are 'working' without pay! All the tricks in the book are used to get everyone to that magic C. :(

Careful OP! Some teachers will think that your DD is presious because she has a parent who cares.

"Surely if the children are from dreadful backgrounds then they need to be referred to agencies or schools which have the specialist units to help them"

Bizarrely, these children are allowed- nay, encouraged- to go to mainstream school. Unbelievable, eh?

OP, the school are under no obligation to share with you other children's circumstances or any sanctions or support they receive.

Like most parents your concern is for your child and your child alone. Ideally you would like her to mix with young ladies like her self, with an interest in learning.

Life is not like that, we have to deal with people all the time that may not share our morals.

This will teach her a lesson in life, there are people from all walks of life and she should hold on to her own values and know she is loved and lucky.

You can not just get rid of people you don't like because they don't conform, life is not like that.

So, pastoral, you're saying that you do give the nice kids only the bare minimum?

I'm not sure you can extrapolate that to every teacher.

I don't use hardworking pupils as unpaid TAs. Do you?

I went in over disruption, and because it was affecting my daughter emotionally. I found the response and the platitudes unacceptable together with the overall lack of standards and expectations beyond the ever so shiny prospectus. Our dd made friends with some lovely girls who lived in extenuating circumstances - they didn't misbehave - why should others - being poor isn't an excuse for bad behaviour. IMO the pupils who will not behave need boundaries early not in their late teens after a caution or three. It seemed to me there was more reward for negative and immature behaviour than for good behaviour.

The staff were doing their best but with little help from the Head as far as I could see. The system stank and this thread illustrates why.

being poor isn't an excuse for bad behaviour.

I don't think, that when people are talking about dreadful family backgrounds, that they're talking about being poor.

What if the child has been kicked out of home? Parent an abusive alcoholic? Parent sexually abusing them?

And it's not an excuse, but it might be an explanation.

"Surely if the children are from dreadful backgrounds then they need to be referred to agencies or schools which have the specialist units to help them"

and are the taxpayers currently happy to pay for specialist units in every town for every single child from a dysfunctional background?

funny, I didn't think people were that keen on extra taxes atm

Children will happily live down to expectations. Far too many teachers have too low expectations and are happy to make excuses for poor behaviour.

I say that as a victim of child abuse whose become a post graduate professional because I was taught not to let my past ruin my (or anyone else's) future.

You have my sympathies OP. it is in the best interests of everybody if these girls have their behaviour tackled; especially them.

I am clear in my posts: going the extra mile for everyone is key and fair.
A lot of teachers are not consistent, don't care, hardly know their pupils, use the highly able as helpers, use humiliation to control, lazy,.....All honest and hard working teachers out there! Do you know someone or many in your faculty? Does it annoy you? Do you do anything about it? Can you do anything about it really? Let's be honest...

The most disturbed child my dcs have ever been to school with had seen his dad murder his mum. By the time he took to acting his troubles out at school, neither of his parents were in much of a position to act up or shut up- one was dead and the other in jail.

Yes, he was referred and yes, he was supported and yes, money was spent on him. But that didn't sort his problems. So what were they supposed to do with them? They could hardly lock him up for life- he hadn't committed a crime. He was just very disturbed. So they did the best they could: treated him and tried to help him deal with a mainstream school in the hope that he would grow up able to lead a normal life. As maybe he will- but it won't happen overnight.

Dcs never knew what was wrong, but they saw enough to realise that this little boy had problems that were just completely beyond anything they had ever experienced.

"We all know that good. hard working pupils are being used in every classroom as TAs almost!"
Eh? I don't know anything of the kind pastoral and I am a teacher too, albeit merely a woolly liberal trainee one.

To the OP, I would suggest that an exclsuion can hardly "send a message into the local community" as exclusion of a pupil is hardly a matter for publication or discussion tbh. You have no idea how issues involving other pupisl are being dealt with (and rightly so). I agree with others, speak to school about your child and how she is being affected. Anything else is not your concern.

Apols for typos, it's clearly time for me to go to bed and ponder how to offer the bare minimum tomorrow

I'm afraid I'm with the OP on this one. I don't care what the pupils home life's are like they get a short exclusion that everyone knows they have had. Otherwise disruptive nonsense spreads.
Pupils have to know from day one of senior school that the head and senior staff have limits to what will be tolerated. Y7 and Y8 are still very young logically they can understand that they shouldn't mess about like x does, but it's terribly tempting especially with teachers who find class control hard.
I don't mind any amount of help and support for children with problems behind the scenes and efforts being made to ensure children are not permanently excluded.
I was actually surprised that the worst member of DDs dreadful MFL class seems to have got his marching orders long term.

Sad to say nothing unusual about comments here. If anyone is bothered about their child's education then contact the school about that matter but you can't comment on others unless they are having an impact on your child's education. I do sympathise though - why should the education of the majority be damaged by a select few - simple if they won't behave despite outside intervention then in my opinion they have no place in a mainstream school - the rewards should be there for those children who conform and behave and wish to learn - and there should be severe sanctions for those who do not. My ds is a very high achiever and is expected to do well but I still reward him for doing so and believe me the sanctions are there if he steps out of line with any member of staff (highly unlikely but....!) The problem is that the teaching staff sometimes have to do their job with both hands tied behind their backs and it does not help. Those who cause trouble should be removed, those who God forbid attack others including teaching staff should be physically removed and then handed straight over to the police for them to deal with. Teachers need more powers to hammer down on bad behaviour and need protection when doing it!! Children should be there to behave, learn and respect the teaching staff whilst doing it!! (Can't you tell I'm old school ).

pastoral I'm a teacher with over 20 years' experience and I have never used a bright pupil 'as a TA almost'. And I have never seen it in all the lessons I have observed as a HoD. Perhaps it's just you...
ANd as for the other complaints in your post above, I have mnet very few teachers like that in all the years and 6 schools I have worked in.

Denial. Denial. Denial...

I have a friend who is a teacher.

Ordinary, perfectly "fine" state school.

Student A (12yo) screamed at teacher X that she was a bitch.
Student A then hit teacher Y in the face, knocking his glasses off.
Student A then assaulted teacher Z and when teacher Z restrained her arms, she said that she would report him as a paedophile.

My friend basically said that the school were powerless to do anything meaningful. Detentions were not attended, parents of A not bothered about what she had done. Indeed, they wanted to blame student B, who A said had verbally upset her, hence her actions!

Honestly, I don't know what you have to do to get expelled from a secondary school these days.

OP - I don't see what you can do really. School can't give you info due to confidentiality and school are actually powerless to do anything punishment wise anyway at the end of the day.

'confidentiality' is a word that is away overused, an excuse really not to follow up and sort out the problem.
HoD: how often do you observe lessons? How often are you checking on what's going on?
Wherever there is NO CONSISTENCY there is chaos.
How many teachers told OP to mind her business? Isn't that what everyone is doing in the schools?