Kingsdale Lottery - is it really random?

[TheWomanOnTheBus]

There is a rumour going round my DCs' primary that certain (other) primary schools are preferred in the lottery (to gerrymander the intake). I try and squash it by saying: don't be silly, its random how can it be ....

... but then I wondered how do we really know. Who carries out the lottery? The admissions policy says its supervised by someone from outside the school, but who? and how?

Anyone know?

Actually, having read your info about what happens in these cases I am feeling a it about increasing conjecture about all this - presumably whatever the outcome, the matter was either a non-event or has been properley dealt with.

I can't remember enough about the detail from the local forum thread, so shouldn't pass on half remembered stuff.

The most important thing is that the students get credibility for their hard work.

I read the posts on the forum local to the school and some posts ( also deleted ) replying to a newspaper .
I did get the sense that there were a number of teachers ( not explained away by the normal summer turnover ) and that concerns were genuine .
The concerns about exams were ( from memory ) regarding completion of coursework and assistance given during the exam .

I would imagine that everything possible would have been done to prevent any investigation jepordising the awarding of qualifications this summer .
I don't actually regard the publication of results as evidence that the investigations found nothing wrong .
I am surprised that if nothing amiss was found that the head hasn't widely publicised this .

My own belief is that there is so much pressure on schools to meet league table criteria that schools will inevitably do all they can to get "good" exam results . some schools are better at working the system than others.
That belief is the real concern to me .

As I have said previously, JCQ regulations say that the results of the investigations must be kept confidential. The head cannot, therefore, publicise the results without breaching the regulations, leading to a further investigation.

I agree that publication of the results does not mean there was nothing wrong. It does, however, suggest that they failed to find evidence of the kind of widespread, systemic malpractice that was alleged.

The information I have seen suggests that students were given marks for coursework they failed to complete (without more information it is impossible to tell whether or not this is a problem), that students were allowed to correct their exam papers after the exam had finished (clearly wrong unless it was correcting the administrative details such as candidate number), that students arriving late were not quarantined (that is correct - they shouldn't be) and were allowed to continue the exam after other pupils had finished (which is exactly what is supposed to happen when a pupil arrives late). But, as I say, that is based on reports in the press so I don't know whether or not it is accurate.

It is true that some teachers will cheat to try and achieve good results. It has always happened and always will. I can give an example from my own school days, around 40 years ago.

Sadly I can't really remember what was said on the local forum but I was very much struck by the apparent sincerity of the posters.

Otoh, there is very little chance of getting in to a reasonable co-ed school in my neighbourhood so, as I have said previously, I would be happy for my dd to get a place there. Results are not everything to me (I think this is where Kingsdale gets on my goat - I just want my children to go to a reasonable local school, it doesn't need to WOW me). I am sure that dd will thrive wherever.

Going back to the main point of the thread .... admissions.

Thanks, everyone, for comments on lottery.

Curious though to see if anyone can explain how the admissions policy works witth respect to the music/sports scholarships.

Policy says:

A maximum of the equivalent of 15% of our Admission Number per year group will be designated for music or sports scholarships which qualify for use for entry to the school.

However, when you then look at the "scholarship oversubscription criteria" it says:

Applicants must reach full scholarship standard and be ranked in the top 15% of the School?s admission number in Year 7 for 2012 to secure an offer of a place based on scholarship criteria.

This suggests (because of the reference to "top 15% of the School's admission number" that you need to get to the right standard and be in drawn in the lottery in the top 15% of overall applicants.

But then it goes on to say:

the top 15% of scholarship applicants .... will be offered a place

which suggests something different (and more logical): that is, that the best 15% of scholarship applicants get a place irrespective of the lottery.

Can anyone confirm if the latter is in fact the case? As mentioned above, the staff at open days don't really seem to understand it either....

The whole scholarship thing seems very unclear to me and I've read it several times. I still can't figure out how it works. I think someone should refer this to the Schools Adjudicator on the grounds that the lack of clarity is in breach of the Admissions Code.

If you have questions about the admissions policy why don't you call the school? This is what I did when I was applying for my elder son two years ago. They couldn't have been more helpful. The Head of Music phoned us personally to talk through our queries and questions. Admittedly it took a day or two to get back to us - but the point is she did. My two sons (the second got in on a sibling place) are extremely happy at the school. What seems to be missing in all the speculation/ allegations and yes possible over selling of the school is that on a day to day basis - its an incredibly calm, warm and caring school. I have no idea about the allegations - nobody has until a report, if any, is published.
All I can go on is what my children tell me every day and what I see - very hard working,dedicated teachers and senior managers (with hugely supportive parents who are spoken to and consulted with on a monthly basis) who really respect and care for all the children. And it isn't hype - the class sizes are very small - which makes for a great learning environment.

Chatter45 - no-one is saying anything against the experience of children in the school.
Good to hear from someone who has been through the admissions process - can you explain the process of allocating scholarships and how that relates to the admissions Lottery? If you get a scholarship, do you automatically get a place?

I am not 100% certain, but I am pretty sure that a scholarship does not confer automatic admission to the school. The child would have to get a lottery place in order to take up the scholarship, I think.

However, you must ring the school to check this out, as Chatter45 says. I am sure they will answer your questions thoroughly. Please do not rely on the heresay of a forum.

Another very happy pupil there in our family too.

Yes yes yes, we all get it that all pupils at Kingsdale and their parents are beyond ecstatic at being there fgs.

The thread is about the ridiculous admissions process. No need to come over all defensive.

God, its like the blardy Stepford Wives of secondary education!

We have asked the representatives of the school tasked with explaining this stuff at Open Days.
We have, separately and collectively over a number of threads, pored over the official policies and information supplied by the school
We have listened to a very experienced admissions expert, prh47 say that even he is of the opinion that said indormation is 'unclear' and should be referred
We have asked you, the parents of children AT the school, and you are unable to be more definite than 'not 100% sure' and 'I think'.

The satisfaction of pupils and parents who get there is not on doubt. The process by which they get there is unclear.

Bibbity - have you had a letter about the Banding Tests yet?

Just picking up on crazymums post above:

Medical and Social (limited to 2 places)
Siblings (typically 40 places)
Specialist places 10% (10-12 places)
Random lottery allocation (typically 60 places)

Jeez, such a complicated policy - and so, so, SO many applicants - for so few specialist (aka scholarship) places.....

Is that for Kingsdale, though, or for Crazy's local school?
I am surprised any school can put a limit of 2 on social and medical places - surely that goes completely against the whole ppoint of making sure that children with social/medical imperatives can get into the most suitable school? So, for e.g if it was the only wheelchair accessible school in the area, they would turn down 2 out of 4 wheelchair users ?

This is for my local academy school which only has an intake of 120 and typically has 600 applications.
For the social and medical places you have to prove that this is the ONLY school that can meet the child's needs!

This is for my local academy school which only has an intake of 120 and typically has 600 applications.
For the social and medical places you have to prove that this is the ONLY school that can meet the child's needs!
I believe that the 10% of specialist places is typical, as we were told when we were thinking about applying that the government had a limit of 10% but if the school has more than one specialism then it could be 10% per special subject. Hope this makes sense.

Sorry to dig up this old thread but as 1 March is looming and we are all sitting on the edge of our seats, I wouldn't mind a recap on what the allocation process is for Kingsdale.

I remember from somewhere that a 'reverend' picks the names randomly in the lottery. Is this true or is it done by some other way? Not sure how lotteries work TBH in the context of admissions. Is it the council that does it or the school?