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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

My 14 year old daughter has changed from confident to reclusive in Y8/9

39 replies

bilibob · 03/11/2011 13:38

I am at my wits end regarding subtle bullying in the form of total exclusion of my daughter. Lots of friends through primary, unpleasantness through Y7 & 8 and now in Y9 I predict she will soon start refusing to go to school. If being excluded completely from all social plans is bullying then that's what this is. Pairing up in lessons is excruciating - why do teachers persist in this? Last term she was at another girl's house who logged onto a vile website and proceeded to "interact" with a series of men via webcam. My daughter hid under the table in complete horror and told me the minute I picked her up. I thought about it for a week and then contacted the police for advice.The subsequent police interest resluted in my daughter becoming even more of a pariah. They move into her place on the school bus and laugh when she has nowhere to sit.... it's never ending.

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Francesca22 · 03/11/2011 14:02

I'm so sorry to hear what you and your daughter are going through. Bullying seems a very fair description of what is happening. Have you talked to school? If not would suggest picking up the phone now and making an appointment no matter how much your daughter doesn't want you to. Is she at all girls or co-ed? A lot of girls go through what your daughter is suffering end of Y8/ start Y9. I don't know if it's hormones.

bilibob · 04/11/2011 07:25

She has been at the ame school since reception. I have approached the school sveral times over the last 2 years. Their response is always to gather the group of girls ( minus my daughter) in the HOY office to "get their side". The result of this is that she feels as though she's either exaggerating or making it all up, and they damage limit between themselves in a bunch. They emerge from the HOY office and gloat - also exclude her even more. She's clever, pretty, normal weight, not a geek (I just say this so you know there's no obvious reason why it's like it is). It's a girls school!! - having said that, there are boys on the school bus, and the bus girls love to continue on the way to and from school. Sending boys texts telling them to beware because my daughter is a "stalker" etc (ridiculous as she's beyond self concious) - funnily enough the boys seem to behave like the girls in this context. The more she puts up a barrier, the more her body language is defensive and difficult. It's a vicious circle. She hasn't used fb or any other site for ages now - scared to put anything out there.

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LaPruneDeMaTante · 04/11/2011 07:35

So sorry to read this. Something similar happened to me at that age (someone read my diary...it had an incident of basically sexual abuse by another boy in it towards a friend...friend denied it and lied so nearly all pals ostracized me for a good while...small school, nowhere to go, no other groups to be with) and I dealt with it by just getting on with things in my own head and being very lonely for a year or so. It is all the worse when you know you've actually done nothing wrong.

It seems extreme but is there any possibility of a transfer to another school?

(BTW in my case it did all even itself out when we were 15/16 and I ended up on good terms with the girl who'd lied and the others too. TBh I find that quite sad as she was clearly vile, but there's not much option when your entire school year is about 15 people!)

mrsgboring · 04/11/2011 07:41

I have to say I agree with LaPrune, that a school transfer could do her the world of good. My sister was very strange at school, consequently bullied and the school dealt with it in a similarly stupid manner to the way your DD's school seem to be handling it. She moved schools and it was a complete tonic.

Also, it's important she doesn't feel trapped in this situation, that there would always be a way round it. That alone might make her feel less dreadful, but I would follow it up and do it too. The situation at her current school sounds toxic (to overuse a term)

PotteringAlong · 04/11/2011 07:47

I second laPrune, I think she needs to move schools.

Going out on a limb - us it a private school if she's been there since reception? Not that it should make any difference to how they respond but, having worked in private and state, I've seen a whole 'keep the majority of fee payers happy thing' going on.

Talk to your DD about what she wants but look at any other school she can feasibly attend. If this carries on and she refuses to go she could potentially come out with nothing, so she'll still do much better if she's happy at a less academic school iyswim?

Also, most option choices will take place in January so it's the ideal time to slot in!

campergirls · 04/11/2011 08:00

Pastoral care at this school is obviously crap, and their approach to bullying worse. Please tell us you're not really paying money to expose your daughter to such unprofessional behaviour by the school.

3littlefrogs · 04/11/2011 08:10

She is being bullied and the school is colluding. Please get her out now before things get any worse.

DeeScent · 04/11/2011 08:31

Sorry your dd is going through this. I would move her to a different school for a fresh start.

PrideOfChanur · 04/11/2011 09:08

Sad for your DD.Yr 8/9 can be a really difficult time.I agree with the posters who think you should consider a move to another school.

Having said that,is her whole year group involved in this bullying,or are there some girls at school she gets on with?
If so is there anyway of playing up her involvement with them,getting her off the bus,and talking to the school again about class organisation,and the pairing up in lessons?
The school's approach so far has been rubbish,and if you have spoken to them over a couple of years without any positive result for your DD,I wouldn't be expecting miracles now...
I used to be pro secondary school children getting themselves to school,and still am,but having experienced with DD what school buses can be like day in and day out - well,not many adults are likely to end up in a situation where they are being bullied in the workplace,and on their journey to work,everyday,with the possibility of this going on for another 5 years.

Also,does your DD have friends out of school? IME this helps,even if they are just friends seen once a week at sports or whatever.It helps to have someone out there who you know does like you.

bilibob · 04/11/2011 12:35

Thanks for all your messages. Yes, it is private just FYI. For that reason , moving in Y9 is fraught with all sorts of potential problems - if you know what I mean. I am a secondary teacher of 20 years myself in state schools, and I quite often have to excercise massive amounts of self control as a result of hearing how this school handles situations. As for the comment about keeping fee payers happy - I absolutely agree with this. Academically it's ok - pastorally it's not. I'd rather have a happy, hard worker than a stressed out, miserable girl who's guaranteed top marks! There are 3 ringleaders on the school bus who the others are happy to follow, and one in the class. these girls seem to dictate whether the others include my daughter - or not... Most of the others act as bystanders (think that's the term for someone who doesn't actually bully but just watches and joins in now and then). She has a couple of out of school friends from Drama but going to different schools means they can't meet up too often. I have one mum who rang me last week asking how she could help. She has been made aware that her daughter is part of the problem and I really appreciate her offer. The rest of the parents could not care less - and I think this is also part of the prob. The mother who was actually in the house on the chatroom afternoon last June has never phoned me to say she feels embarrassed/sorry/angry about what her daughter did. I am the bad gut for reporting it - and my daughter is a "malicious bitch" apparently for telling me what happened.

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Mrsrobertduvall · 04/11/2011 12:44

Is the school having a focus in antibullying week?
Maybe they should address it then..lesson plans, activities, maybe a speaker in from Nspcc.

EverythingInMjiniature · 04/11/2011 12:46

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mumslife · 04/11/2011 13:34

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mummytime · 04/11/2011 14:03

My friends too the reluctant decision to move their daughter in year 9 (about Christmas time). She is now back in the original school for sixth form, but those 2 + years did her the world of good. She was able to get good exam passes, be happy and mature in a environment which was safe for her. Despite the difficulties I would seriously suggest you look at moving her. She will not achieve her potential if she is unhappy, and it could seriously damage her mental health.

Francesca22 · 04/11/2011 14:36

Moving schools is a unnerving option but it sounds like it might be best for your
daughter and I think she might find things easier at a co-ed school (one with pretty equal numbers of boys and girls!!). If you move now the timing is ok in terms of exams -- your daughter will have time to settle down. I think having boys around tends to diffuse the bitching in the school environment and your daughter may find she makes friends easily with them as she may be suspicious of girls for a while. The bus journey sounds horrible but I suspect it's because it's a small group in a small space that the boys are involved. I can't tell you how many girls I know who have gone through what your daughter is going through and I don't think it's a coincidence that they are bright and attractive. One of my close friends is going through this at the moment and has just given notice for the end of term. Her daughter is Y8 too.

noblegiraffe · 04/11/2011 16:27

Moving in Y9 might be difficult, moving in Y10 or 11 would be much worse because of GCSE courses.

If you think she is going to start refusing to go to school at all and the school have been useless in sorting the problem, then I'm not sure you have much option. Has there been any suggestion of moving classes to get away from these girls?

CrosswordAddict · 04/11/2011 17:19

OP Firstly, I think you may need to lean heavily on the school to do something to earn their fees.
Secondly, private schools cannot afford to lose pupils in the present economic situation so this should make them a bit more proactive.
Thirdly, if your daughter is moving schools, then she will need to do so for the start of Year 10 as most GCSE courses are two- year courses.
I think she will probably benefit from a change and the sooner the better.
You have my sympathy, fwiw. Brew

MigratingCoconuts · 04/11/2011 17:24

I'm amazed that you are paying for this experience!!! I feel so sorry for your girl Sad

noblegiraffe is right, moving now would be much better than waiting into the GCSE courses.

As a teacher I wouldn't always say moving schools is the best solution but I would in this case, with so little school support and these ringleaders being allowed to remain in power and control of the situation.

good luck sorting it.

Tortu · 04/11/2011 19:10

In defence of the school (though they sounds dreadful!), it is notoriously difficult dealing with girls and friendship fights/ bullying. I have worked in, what sounds like, quite a similar school and it was a nightmare. I would deal with at least one crying girl each day- and it really was like their whole world had ended. I've never seen adults become so upset when they've split up with their husbands as when groups of girls at this age split up. Distraught.

And the biggest problem? Most of it is entirely in the girls' heads (and I mean the bullies as well), so you can't prove anything. There is usually nothing substantial, so girls sobbing because 'somebody handed me the maths book in a funny way and I just knew they hated me and everybody had been talking about me' was not unusual.

I would also move her. I hate all-girl environments for this very reason. I think your daughter needs to find some new friends and it doesn't sound like there are any options in this school. She possibly needs to be in an environment mixing with boys who won't stomach this kind of nonsense. I would look for a large comprehensive with a bullying policy and a wide variety of children.

kalidasa · 04/11/2011 19:26

I think a mixed school is a good idea if you move her. I was ostracised in a fairly low-level but persistent way through most of secondary school and a move to mixed-sex at sixth form was a huge relief. I made both male and female friends at that point, but I admit that it took me many years to feel comfortable in a group of girls/women (rather than just one-on-one) and in fact - perhaps not coincidentally - I chose a profession which is quite male dominated and doesn't include too much group/team work. That's a long-winded way of saying that this kind of thing on an ongoing basis (for more than just, say, one school year) can have a long term effect. If the school isn't big enough for her to find a different 'group' then I think you should at least discuss with her the possibility of moving.

livinginlondon2 · 04/11/2011 19:43

It sounds like she is having a horrible time, and it sounds all to familiar. My daughter and many of her friends seem to have gone through much the same sort of things in year eight and nine of all girls schools. My gut reaction is to say move her now, howevr I think that depends on what the other options are. In our case we didn't move our dd after much discussion because we felt that she would not necessarily interview well as her confidence had taken such a bashing ,and we were worried that would choose a school in a hurry because it had a place available and not necessarily because it was thee right school. We also felt it would thin be difficult to move her again for sixth form.

In the end we left her where she was, but, year ten bought with it so many changes that the bullying behaviour has drifted into the background. In the first instance the forms were all switched around, breaking up the groups that had formed in the first three years. This helped. However, the more obvious thing was that thanks to gcse option, the girls all move classes all the time throughout the day. Up til now she has had the same girls for all classes except magus, the only class that was setted. Now every class is different, and the girls that had made her life a misery just are not there all the time, and are themselves distributed across all the classes and so are less of a obvious group.

This is a long winded way of saying that I would council moving, and like everyone else I would strongly consider a mixed school; however if that isn't possible I would look at her own school and see whether the structure of her day will change dramatically next year.

In our case I thinker should have moved our daughter, but she is much, much happier this year, so lthough we havent done the right thing, it has worked out.

In our case the school also did little to help, despite the fact that a large number of girls were affected eby the generally nasty attitude in the class.

Silverstreet · 04/11/2011 22:30

OP I have been there too, you could be me. If you do not conform to the queen bee groups in a girls school you are at best on the edge, if you speak out you are dead. We moved to v good mixed comp and was best decision ever, DD now 100% confident, different child. You cannot change the school's attitude either from what you describe. Please investigate moving her to a large intake mixed school. Boys break this sort of behaviour up and there are far more different types in a larger school so she should find more like minded friends there. Happy to talk by PM too more specifically about moving, notice, admissions if you both reach that decision.

balia · 04/11/2011 22:35

I'm biased - have had appalling private school experiences. Why do you send her there? How much misery can she be expected to cope with? Move her to a nice, normal secondary school. There are more of them about than people think.

bilibob · 04/11/2011 23:06

Silverstreet hits the nail on the head.. Queen Bee scenario big time, except there are lots of them!! Moving her is a problem though. For 2 years we have discussed it - the local schools are full to bursting and the ones that aren't have big problems. A nice normal sec school would be fantastic but getting her in now when all the appeals have almost finished is very hard. I worry too that her confidence is now so low that she would go into a serious decline in an unfamiliar place. There are 5 year groups and approx 26 in each class in this school so not small. The classes were jumbled up last year and things are just as bad now because the way they were mixed just beggars belief (considering last years trouble). I've been horrified at the number of girls in her year who had self harming / eating issues last year in Y8. At least my DD has a good home life and is able to offload on me instead. The result of that though is I'm an anxious wreck. This is the first time I have ever posted anything anywhere and I did it because I just needed to know whether other people genuinely have had a similar problem. It does seem to be a thread that runs through girls schools - also the material aspect of those who have more money, makes everything worse for the struggling ones!! There is a whole lot of really bad promiscuity going on at a young age too - I imagine it happens in most schools now - without sounding like a prude, mums who've had cosmetic surgery and Queen Bees who end up in the papers on footballers yachts etc etc. Think I'd better stop now before I go on....Sending her all those years ago in reception seemed like such a good idea.

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3littlefrogs · 04/11/2011 23:19

I thnk you have been brainwashed into thinking you have no options.

If you are paying you will be able to find a nice school that will take her.

The school she is in now is appalling, by anyone's standards.

I took my ds out of his (primary) school halfway through year 4. He was offered a place at three independant schools within a week.

I have 4 friends who took their dc out of school at varying stages of secondary school and got them into good private schools instantly. Schools are happy to take your money. You are the customer. Don't accept anything less than the best.