Would a person need to be officially GnT to consider Oxford?

[ZombiesAtYourCervix]

D1 is 15 and has decided that's where she is going. She is nice, sweet and hardworking but not brilliantly clever (predicted mostly As at GCSE). She just asked if she could go to an open day sometime to have a look around (very forward planning I know but that's her)

DO I encourage her or redirect her?

At Oxford there are lots of students with Northern accents (although the north south divide and ribbing is centuries old, Wales is part of the North BTW), there are also lots and lots of state school students. My old tutor used to say he preferred State school pupils as if they got A's he knew they were bright.

pete please don't start your quarrels again :). I think you have experience of Cambridge applications; you know very well how high the grades are.

BoffinMum may well wish to encourage applicants from disadvantaged areas or who've suffered illness but the grades required for those applicants are different from the norm.

The reality of the vast majority of grades and offers at Cambridge is very different from 5A 's at GCSE and AAB at A2, I'm not sure why that should be in dispute. Check out the info for Medicine on the university website for example.

I find the information given by the outreach officers completely consistent with the practice Boffin, I never said I didn't: 7A, 4 A's at AS of over 90%, AAA . Possibly that's at the higher end, I agree. It would be good if you'd tell us what the average offer is in your department across the university, it won't be 5A's or AAB (I did ask before, it would be helpful).

pete a very large number of universities use contextual data; Oxford is very far from alone. Not everyone has the chance to go to an Eton. It's absolutely appropriate to adjust.

'Little wonder British universities and educational standards are slipping down the world league tables'

Cambridge beat Harvard to the top spot this year. Do you know how much more funding Harvard has?! I think we Brits should be very proud.

peteneras universities are entirely about social engineering. The selection of an elite starts at birth (or even before) and the whole school system is designed to teach acceptance of your role in a particular social system. Making a show of an allowance for disadvantage is simply a bit of window dressing, it makes very little difference. Foreign students have a different school experience.

Yellowstone I imagine your experience is only of one school, and one you often claim to be one of the best state schools. BoffinMum's is of one university, that makes outreach visits to a lot of schools. Even if you have remembered what was said perfectly (how long ago was your talk?) it may not be relevant elsewhere.

What I am taking from this is that a child who doesn't have a lot of A* grades may be better choosing Cambridge than Oxford because they place more emphasis on the AS results/A level predictions.

Interesting, Ellisbell. My impression is that the Cambridge admissions system is better for applicants with a less than perfect clutch of GCSEs.

ellisbell my experience is not only of one school and I'm not sure what entitles you to think that . I have not attended a single talk and those that I have attended have been very recent and extend back over a number of years. Not all MNersbare their credentials on the forum, so perhaps don't jump to conclusions. I defend my DCs' school against silly and bigoted attacks, no more, that's fair (but not relevant).

Anyhow, this is silly too. The Special Access scheme is entirely laudable but not relevant to most applicants.

Taking the Trinity College Cambridge website page which all on here (including my detractors) can probably agree is a sound source of official information:

'..competition for places is always severe and the majority of our applicants do come to us with 8 or more GCSE grades of A or A of which about 6 or 7 are A.'

'Most successful applicants have average AS module scores of more than 90%'

'For 2012-13 Trinity's standard A-Level offer will be A*AA..'

'In 2010, more than 95% of those holding Trinity offers achieved at least AAA....post A-level applicants should be aware that they would normally need an A in at least two subjects to be competitive'.

I was trying to save myself the fag of typing that lot out.

Actually the fag of locating it and typing it out. It's replicated all over the official website under each college heading.

But why can't you apply everywhere if you want?

fearful - because the colleges aren't fully separate institutions. Teaching is shared across the whole university.

In principle, if you are good enough to deserve a place but do not get one at your first choice, you should get one in the pool. It'd be immensely more time, money and paperwork for you to apply and be interviewed at 30-odd places, only for those 30-odd places to all agree you're good, or all agree you're bad.

I know in practice it is not perfect as there's an element of human variation in an interview, but I can't see them changing the system when it's theoretically fine and much, much cheaper than the alternative.

I assume the reason you can't apply to both Oxford and Cambridge (except in rare cases, eg. if you're an organ scholar) is also primarily to do with the amount of extra paperwork and time it'd involve if people did.

your childrens' school is relevant because it would not be surprising if offers made at a high performing school were higher than to those at schools who traditionally send less pupils to Cambridge. As you have more than one child, and they all appeared to be at the same school, you may have been to more than one talk over the years. However it would be odd if you'd been to talks elsewhere unless you had a child/children elsewhere or worked in education. If you worked in education it would probably only be one more school so considerably less experience than someone actually interviewing for the university.

I had a look at Kings's since a quick glance suggested it had a high ratio of applicants to places. No mention of GSCE on the requirements page, only of A level. Yes offers will normally be A* AA.

I don't doubt that most applicants will have strings of A*s at GSCE but there will be some who only come into their own after GSCE or are really gifted in one area. It seems Cambridge are happy to consider them if they are truly keen on their subject and doing very well after GSCE.

Punkin thanks for the concern I agree with hou on so many levels... I've told ds to grow a thicker skin.

He claims a conversation was had when two housemates expressed shock at him working for minimum wage and one added 'my time's worth more than that' - his is too but needs must!

His accent is barely northern btw but his college is renowned for beibg a little 'poncey' and right wing! His choice- think he secretly likes the challenge

This thread v helpful btw even for a second timer like me - thank you all for taking the time to contribute it really helps

NotanOtter, has he looked into the full range of bursaries etc available? My understanding was that they aren't really supposed to work during term-time - maybe you mean during the hols though? - and the colleges are so wealthy that they will thrust money into the hands of any student who needs any.

There is no way we'd qualify for a bursary Punkin but thanks for the advice. DS just gets his rent paid by us like many students - but again I think maybe at 'top' universities parents can tend to be slightly older and wealthier.

DS is just very tight and wary of too much debt so works full time in holidays

Yes you are right just holiday work. I don't know of any with a term time job- think that might ge a case of straw camel and a poorly back if ds even contemplated it!!!

I'm trying to guess which college now NotanOtter - my hunch would be Peterhouse or Magdalene . . .

Hope he has a better time this year anyway.

Aw, he should chill re debt. He'll earn a fortune in the future; and if he doesn't, for some reason, like serious illness, he won't need to pay it back.

ellisbell I can't quite get the motive for the sleuthing. You're missing facts I'm afraid, intentionally.

I queried BoffinMum's unrealistic assertion about grades because it could mislead, unhelpfully. For remaining doubters I suggest the Cambridge Admissions Office ([email protected]/ 01223 333308) who can put you right.

I can't think why, given the misinformation, BoffinMum should be receiving messages of support from colleagues - and how do they know who she is? .

PMd you kalidasa

I've been watching this thread.
As a mother of a 15 year old DS who attends a state comp Up North and has aspirations for Cambridge can I just say thanks to all the people who have contributed and given me much useful information.

I would like to support BoffinMum - who has given loads of support to many of going through UCAS.

I personally know someone studying now at Cambridge who did NOT get a string of A*s and got AAB at A level, but had such a passion for his subject with proof to show this he got a place.

My DS "only" has 5A*s at GCSE and he fully intends to apply as there is a course particular to Cambridge only which he is extremely interested in. With the right PS and as long as pulls off decent AS results next year I will be backing him all the way.

What a silly world we live in when you need to say 'only' 5 A* at GCSE!

Good luck to your DS, Milliways.

yellowstone, you are coming across as quite rude now, you know. It's not remotely surprising that different people involved in admissions at the same university would know each other. I accept we cannot expect boffinmum to come along and say 'yes, I'm Dr So-and-so' (and I expect you could claim she might be lying if she did), but you keep on suggesting she's a liar and it sounds very unpleasant, not to say ridiculous.

milliways ( i remember you advising me years ago on here!!!) DD has just got her GCSEs and again not a full complement of A * but today a teacher came up to her and said 'YOU - Oxbridge material - I will not hear a "No" ' which is the tyoe of teacher we need for our sixth formers!!