More of a WWYD actually- College now not offering 2 of the IB subjects that DD1 wanted to do

[duchesse]

DD is supposed to be starting the IB at our local 6th form college in a couple of weeks. She wanted to do Maths, Physics & Chemistry at higher level, and English, French and Philosophy at standard.

Yesterday at enrollment, the college tutor announced that they are now not doing Maths at higher level, and not philosophy at all. They have come up with a cunning wheeze instead of making those that wanted higher maths do a maths A level instead, taking the exams in the January session (ie two terms shorter than usual), then cramming Maths studies (aka Maths for the non-mathematical) into the Jan-May period in time for the exam.

DD is very upset about this- she feels that maths studies will be a waste of time for her since it is barely more than a GCSE, which she just took. She's not opposed to doing History instead of Philosophy but it is looking as though the syllabus is the same as the GCSE she just took (although probably in more depth) and is dreading doing same topics for another two years.

She and I both feel that they are just doing Maths studies for easy points rather than because they feel the students will benefit from it, and that worries me about the ethos of the course. Is it just going to be about exams?

The other problem is that whilst former school goes back on Thursday 1st Sept, college does not begin until September 12th, meaning that if she decides it's not going to work out at the college, she'll already have missed 2 weeks at least of term at school if she has to go back there.

She could go back to her former (fee-paying) school and do A levels, go to the fee-paying school her sister is at and do the AQA Baccalaureate which is similar to the IB but uses A levels as its base. Or she could go along with what the college has planned. Financially we cannot afford to send her to an IB school abroad- we cannot really afford to send her back to her old school either, but her grandmother has offered to help with fees if she does need to go back.

WWYD?

[Newbabynewmum]

Ah ok! Sorry, from your OP I thought that she wasn't too keen :)

[complexnumber]

The real Complex here!

I would be interested to learn why HL maths is not being offered. Is it a cost cutting thing as the school does not expect much up-take from pupils. Or is it, as another poster wondered, because the maths dept at the school is not willing to offer the course for its own reasons. Personally I feel that if a school is to offer the IB, they need to be able to offer all levels for each subject they offer, and Maths is compulsory.

The idea of covering A level maths, then quickly shoving in a Maths Studies course at the end sounds very half baked and as others have suggested will not give your daughter the depth of knowledge she will require. I can see no advantages to it at all, she will have to complete a very time consuming maths project as well as all the syllabus work.

Maths HL is a very tough course, (many of my A* students have struggled). It takes more than just hard work to do well, there needs to be some sort of innate spark of mathematical creativity. It's also a hell of a journey, if you enjoy mathematics it opens up places you never imagined you'd visit. I love teaching it.

Many universities (not all) consider it essential for anyone studying a pure science or engineering course. For the top uni's you may well be asked for a Grade 6 (out of 7).

I would like to rush to the defence of the Maths Studies course as it does take a lot of flak. It is a great course that includes a lot of stuff that the other courses do not. It is aimed at those less likely to use maths after leaving school, but it is a decent course.

[goinggetstough]

A minor point I know but if your DD does do A levels in the end she could do the Extended Project Qualification (EPQ) which is similar to the IB extended essay. It also gives you extra UCAS points in line with another AS level.

[Yellowstone]

The EP is a component of the AQA Bacc ggt.

If you're in the central area duchesse then you could try either the CG or the grammars down the coast. If they have room, for CG she'd have to start in Y11 - but some do. The others are more conventional but not as good. The 11+ is irrelevant with 9A*'s, no-one would hold that against her!

They're only a phone call away.

Mind you, DD2's school is very good and probably way more convenient but if DG is willing and able....

[umf]

If she wants to do nat sci or medicine at Cambridge, I think she would be better off doing A Levels and specialising properly. At least that was the advice my school gave. Though it was, err, 14 years ago, before the new AS Levels.

Doing IB plus maths A Level sounds like stressful fuss. Very naughty of the school to put her in that position.

Phone any other other possible schools and explain situation in case they can squeeze her in?

[gasman]

Ok. I wouldn't attempt to do A- level or IB level Physics without Maths. I tried and it was very difficult and I dropped a grade. In retrospect I should have either done Maths A-level or changed the Physics to something else. The college IB + Alevel maths plan sounds potty. We did a similar fudge at my school - Scottish Higher Maths for A-level physicists. It didn't work.

Ergo I would rethink where she goes. I have little recent experience with the English education system so can't comment on equivalency of other offerings.

Do check the medicine entry requirements carefully as you don't want her to be excluded from certain courses because she hasn't done a particular subject. Anecodotally Biology is useful and can get you an easy first term....but on the otherhand two of the very high flyers from my medical school year didn't have it. Both went on to graduate with honours.

Depending on what she wants to do in the future physics might be very useful. As an anaesthetist I have thanked my amazing physics teacher from school a million times over as our postgraduate exams have a large physics component and I think I would have struggled a lot without the very solid grounding that I gained at school. However this is years in the future for her.

[Groovee]

I'm being nosy but what is IB?

[gasman]

International Baccalaureate


www.ibo.org/

Well established european qualification, increasingly offered by UK schools (my old school now does it), several of my uni friends have it. Advantageous as others have said as it allows a breadth of subject range into 6th form.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along soon.

[mrswoodentop]

International Baccalaureate.

I would rethink to be honest,if she is thinking medicine andCambridge you can't afford to take risks .I would do A levels with EP

[bucaneve]

Just saw you are in Devon, if it's Exeter college your daughter wants to do the IB at, I'd say to go for it and do Maths A level independently.

My friend did the IB at Exeter about 4/5 years ago and said it was brilliant because it was just one group of tight knit, quite hard working students doing the IB with her, and they all gelled really well together and helped eachother out. Also, she loved her history teacher (quite an elderly lady if its still the same one) - really strict, but a feminist and with some great stories to tell.

[thetasigmamum]

Duchesse I've known two students do the IB at the college and they both did very well (one had previousy been at St Peters, one had been at the Maynard). They both went to Russell Group unis. But. They were both doing arty humanities stuff (one was music, the other was geography). I know someone who teaches Maths at the college. She is an excellent teacher and a very academic mathematician too (Cambridge). But I suspect that not offering the higher Maths course is simply a reflection of the economics - perhaps not enough people wanted to do it to make it viable? I had this problem at my inner city comp when I wanted to do furtherr Maths A level - only about 6 kids in the Borough wanted to do it. So they decided that just one school would offer it. It wasn't my school. That school also didn't offer the other subjects I wanted to do (history and music). Luckily for me and the other girl who wanted to do further mats at our school the Maths staff decided to teach it in lunchtimes/after school /free periods instead. That is, I suspect, unlikely to happen at the college.

I think, to be honest, that she should either stick where she is or go to the Maynard. I don't think she should have her whole future decided by college economics unless there is no other choice. The 'solution' the college offers doesn't sound like a solution to me since it looks to be attempting to replace a further Maths equivalent with standard Maths. Or, as Yellowstone says, try the CG or Torquay route. I'm sure any of those schools will bite her hand off, she has done so very well. It's such a shame that her last weeks of holiday have turned so stressful though.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

If you make a thread title asking for Oxbridge/Russell Group admissions people, you'll get replies - there are a couple at least who post regularly. Or better, ring them up. If she is already thinking about university and specifically Oxbridge, she needs to know from the horse's mouth what they think about all this. And they are nice people who will be helpful. Points in her favour if she rings and investigates.

FWIW, Oxbridge interviewers may ask why she didn't move schools - they will not take 'oh, the school didn't offer it' as an excuse unless it's very clear the student comes from a background where s/he could not possibly have changed schools.

[TrillianAstra]

YABU because you have not asked an "Am I Being Unreasonable?" question.

There are sections on education, on "What would you do?" and general chat.

[SeniorWrangler]

See if Hockerill Anglo-European College can take pity on her and squeeze her in as a boarder?

[duchesse]

None of which move very fast, thank you Trillian. I need as much info as possible by the end of the Bank Holiday and this seemed the best bet.

Thank you so very much to everybody for your advice. Hockerill would be fab as it would be more or less the same price as former school. I'll have to see how keen she is on boarding- she can be a bit of a home body.

[TrillianAstra]

No, Chat doesn't get much traffic at all.

[duchesse]

Going to ring the Admissions Tutor at our old college first thing on Tuesday, plus make an appointment to see the principal at the 6th form college on Wednesday. I know that her old school would have her back in a flash (HT has said so) and have to no reason not to think that the Maynard wouldn't have her (extra plus is we'd get a sibling discount!!). Don't think it's too much of a problem if she missed the first few days of term, just don't want her missing weeks and weeks.

[oldandcrabby]

Have you checked out Kevicc at Totnes, they do IB or do you insist on going private? Half and hour by train from Exeter.

[oldandcrabby]

Sorry: half an hour! College is 5 minutes walk from station. Very big Sixth Form so plenty of extra curricular opportunities: trips, DofE, Ten Tors, ski trips, Drama and Music performances etc.

[EcoLady]

To get into medicine at Cambridge she needs minimum of A levels in two out of Biology, Physics and Maths. www.medschl.cam.ac.uk/education/courses/cgc/

Please take proper advice on whether the IB is appropriate.

[marcopront]

Another IB Maths teacher here.

IB is appropriate for Cambridge but I would say not with maths studies. I agree with complex number, it is a great course for the people it is designed for but your daughter is not one of them. Cramming for it in three months is not possible, the logic and two variable stats are not on the GCSE course and then there is the project as well.

I would also agree that they are not doing HL maths because of a lack of students which is a shame.

I think IB is a fantastic programme but if she cannot do HL maths, with the course she wants to do I would seriously consider A'levels.

[complexnumber]

I do wish the myth that you can't study Medicine at Cambridge with an IB diploma would be dispelled.

www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/medicine/requirements.html

This site clearly states:
'The typical IB offer is 40-42 points, with 776 or 777 at Higher Level. Please note that the subject requirements at GCSE and AS/A Level also apply to the IB.'

[moocowmoo]

In my opinion, IB subjects at Higher Level are harder than the equivalent subject at A2 level. I teach Biology, and the Higher Level course covers some areas that most A-level students would probably encounter for the first time at undergraduate level. To get maximum points on the IB, (which includes level 7s in each subject), is extremely difficult and a far smaller proportion of IB students achieve this than the proportion of A level students who get straight A grades. Higher Level Maths is a very challenging course. If your daughter is exceptionally talented academically, doing the IB might work out well for her. However, I think that A-levels are the "safer" option; they are better understood by universities, (although some universities are beginning to understand the requirements of the IB a little more), she will need to study fewer subjects and there are fewer additional requirements. If she wants to do extras on top of her A-levels, she still can. I think the college's of mixing and matching the A-level and the IB does not sound great at all. I hope it all works out well for your daughter. I studied NatSci at Cambridge and I loved it!

[beanlet]

Duchesse, just PM'd you. It's important.