More of a WWYD actually- College now not offering 2 of the IB subjects that DD1 wanted to do

[duchesse]

DD is supposed to be starting the IB at our local 6th form college in a couple of weeks. She wanted to do Maths, Physics & Chemistry at higher level, and English, French and Philosophy at standard.

Yesterday at enrollment, the college tutor announced that they are now not doing Maths at higher level, and not philosophy at all. They have come up with a cunning wheeze instead of making those that wanted higher maths do a maths A level instead, taking the exams in the January session (ie two terms shorter than usual), then cramming Maths studies (aka Maths for the non-mathematical) into the Jan-May period in time for the exam.

DD is very upset about this- she feels that maths studies will be a waste of time for her since it is barely more than a GCSE, which she just took. She's not opposed to doing History instead of Philosophy but it is looking as though the syllabus is the same as the GCSE she just took (although probably in more depth) and is dreading doing same topics for another two years.

She and I both feel that they are just doing Maths studies for easy points rather than because they feel the students will benefit from it, and that worries me about the ethos of the course. Is it just going to be about exams?

The other problem is that whilst former school goes back on Thursday 1st Sept, college does not begin until September 12th, meaning that if she decides it's not going to work out at the college, she'll already have missed 2 weeks at least of term at school if she has to go back there.

She could go back to her former (fee-paying) school and do A levels, go to the fee-paying school her sister is at and do the AQA Baccalaureate which is similar to the IB but uses A levels as its base. Or she could go along with what the college has planned. Financially we cannot afford to send her to an IB school abroad- we cannot really afford to send her back to her old school either, but her grandmother has offered to help with fees if she does need to go back.

WWYD?

[duchesse]

Peterhouse:

1. Do you feel that the science courses in the IB are as rigorous as
   A levels?
   
   Generally, yes. There is a view that Higher Maths has more breadth and
   less depth than A level Maths/Further Maths but this is not a
   problem. Candidates with IB and A level are treated equally, none has
   advantage over the other.
   
   
2. Have you made any offers to IB applying for medicine or the
   sciences in the last few years, and if so how high do they tend to
   be? Do candidates tend to meet their offers or not? Would you say
   that the proportion of IB candidates meeting their offers is similar
   or lower to A level candidates?
   
   We have made offers, some have been made, some not; the numbers are
   too small to compare with A level meaningfully. The typical offer in
   Medicine and Natural Sciences is A*AA at A level, and 42 points with
   776 or 777 at Higher levels. Having said that, there isn't really such
   a thing as a typical offer. Each candidate is judged individually and
   there are many factors that determine the offer (the interview,
   previous exam performance, references, etc).
   
   
   
3. Does the college's proposed solution of adding a maths A level
   to the mix seem odd to you? How would you as an admissions tutor
   view it on paper?
   
   No, this wouldn't be odd at all. We would simply taylor the offer
   accordingly. The only question is what the third higher would be. I
   think it would be damaging only to offer two highers. In [Your dd's]
   case, Biology sounds a natural choice I suppose.
   
   
   
4. If you were in our position, what would you encourage your
   child to do?
   
   That would depend on all sorts of things that I can't judge.

[ellisbell]

duchesse - of course, to the name.

I'm only skimming this thread, especially the college replies, but is it medicine your daughter wants to do or is she not sure? If she is in any doubt then studying Biology is something she needs to consider and is far more important than where she studies it. It's actually more important than Maths (outside Oxbridge, haven't looked at their requirements), would that put the IB back in the frame? She also needs to start volunteering at something that might show interest in/commitment to medicine. Start her on that soon if medicine is even a possibility, it will do her no harm and may help focus her ideas. It would also be useful to take her to local university open days to look at what sort of alternative courses there are.

Don't allow your child to get too focused on Oxbridge if she cares about medicine, unless she intends to make her career in academic medicine. Some well qualified people choose not to apply there.

[duchesse]

I think we're fast veering towards switching to A levels at the college, with a plan B of going back to old school/tutoring should the teaching not be up to snuff at the college. I called the maths and science faculty at the 6th form college this morning, just waiting for them to ring back.

[duchesse]

and tbh looking at her now I think she may be more of a scientist than a medic, but your advice is sage ellis, and I have taken it on board.

[Yellowstone]

duchesse it seems to me and my DC that a great many people are spending a great deal of time trying to advise you. Ten Cambridge tutors have given you very full replies which I would have thought General Admissions could have dealt with just as well. I'm sure the individual colleges gave your e-mail the attention they did because they thought you were asking them alone. Ten is taking the mickey a bit. These people are busy.

I'm not skimming like ellis, I'm interested in the detail of the replies, it's my world at the moment. My favourite reply is from Magdalene, which pulls no punches.

An applicant would have to be very obtuse by now not to get the message a) that Cambridge likes the depth of A Levels for Science and b) that this is a highly, highly competitive subject/ uni combination and that it's not a good move to become fixated on Cambridge and Cambridge alone. As Magdalene warns you and as my own DS is acutely aware: there are no guarantees.

[Yellowstone]

Whereas my advice (consistent from even before the thread started!) hasn't been sage? How's that?

[duchesse]

Ah, you're quite right Yellowstone. Of course I should consign my daughter's future to the advice of one person on the internet.

Thank you for your extensive contributions.

[duchesse]

And since you already have several children at Oxbridge Yellowstone I'm sure you are aware that every college is different has different admissions criteria. I'm not sure why you're surprised that I emailed so many.

Luckily we have extensive family links with a couple of colleges and know fellows within several others so can get between the lines advice as well from people actually involved in actual admissions.

[Yellowstone]

That's extremely rude and ungracious duchesse.

You are on the internet on a thread you yourself started purporting to seek advice! Not guilty!

My intention was to try to help, given my own recent experience with Oxbridge admissions. And you won't be the only one with 'connections', others may wish to be a little discreet.

My advice was sound from the start and appears to have the backing of at least nine Cambridge tutors. I continued to give further advice, ignoring ill grace. The festering resentment that you yourself admit you bear against the school is not healthy, duchesse, let it go, it taints your judgment and is unfair on the children and adults you tar.

At least my own DC, going into this same process, have benefited from a grounded mum who knows her stuff and gives them common sense guidance when they seek it.

They also don't have the additional pressure of an overly competitive mum; I would add that that's another drawback going into the process and can frequently end in tears.

[duchesse]

Reply from Emma:
Dear [duchesse and mr duchesse] (if I may)



Thank you for your email.



We are extremely positive towards the IB and know that it is directly comparable to A-levels all on levels. It is unusual for us not to make an IB offer on the vast majority of sciences and I cannot remember the last time we did not make an IB offer to a medic (there is at least one every year). Our standard offer is 776 in HL subjects, with 41 points overall, including bonus points. We have never had a science offer holder who has missed the conditions of their IB offer. On the whole IB students perform extremely well.



We cannot answer directly about the proposed curriculum policy at the School. All I can say is that if [your dd] takes SL Maths Studies and did not take A-level Maths, she would not meet the pre-medical requirements and would find the competition tougher for Natural Sciences, which is possibly why the College is asking students to take A-level Maths.



I recognise that [your dd] has not made her mind up between Medicine and Natural Sciences, but as you are no doubt aware, she will need to keep her options open for Medicine is particular, in order to meet the pre-medical requirements. With this in mind, her College is covering all eventualities, so my advice would be that [your dd] attends the School/College where she will be happiest with the course content and her peer group.

[duchesse]

DD1 just texted from the college to say she is re-enrolling for A levels.

[duchesse]

All 3 sciences, maths and French.

[SeniorWrangler]

I help with Oxbridge admissions, actually, and while everyone has central training, different colleges focus on different things, for example some colleges like to spend extra time looking at people applying via the special access scheme, for example, and others spend extra time looking at the stats of each secondary school attended by applicants to see whether they are coming from a conventional or non-conventional background. Some interviewers have more of a sense of what the IB represents than others, as well. It does vary.

[ellisbell]

Interesting that Cambridge likes Maths so much, even for medicine. It's obviously a well valued A level everywhere but not considered essential at most med schools. She'll be a busy girl, I hope she settles quickly at her college and does well there.

[SeniorWrangler]

AL Maths is also a social indicator - only kids considered super bright usually sit it, and this group also comprises many kids from privileged homes with parents who are graduates. It stinks, but that's the truth.

[duchesse]

I think that they like you to do these subjects not just to gain a grounding in them (much of which will truthfully be redundant when you begin your degree in Physics for example, since for expediency below degree level they have to teach many things that are either wrong or incomplete) but also as an indicator of your ability to learn a particular type of subject in a particular way. Also they are proof of your interest in the subjects you'll be learning.