More of a WWYD actually- College now not offering 2 of the IB subjects that DD1 wanted to do

[duchesse]

DD is supposed to be starting the IB at our local 6th form college in a couple of weeks. She wanted to do Maths, Physics & Chemistry at higher level, and English, French and Philosophy at standard.

Yesterday at enrollment, the college tutor announced that they are now not doing Maths at higher level, and not philosophy at all. They have come up with a cunning wheeze instead of making those that wanted higher maths do a maths A level instead, taking the exams in the January session (ie two terms shorter than usual), then cramming Maths studies (aka Maths for the non-mathematical) into the Jan-May period in time for the exam.

DD is very upset about this- she feels that maths studies will be a waste of time for her since it is barely more than a GCSE, which she just took. She's not opposed to doing History instead of Philosophy but it is looking as though the syllabus is the same as the GCSE she just took (although probably in more depth) and is dreading doing same topics for another two years.

She and I both feel that they are just doing Maths studies for easy points rather than because they feel the students will benefit from it, and that worries me about the ethos of the course. Is it just going to be about exams?

The other problem is that whilst former school goes back on Thursday 1st Sept, college does not begin until September 12th, meaning that if she decides it's not going to work out at the college, she'll already have missed 2 weeks at least of term at school if she has to go back there.

She could go back to her former (fee-paying) school and do A levels, go to the fee-paying school her sister is at and do the AQA Baccalaureate which is similar to the IB but uses A levels as its base. Or she could go along with what the college has planned. Financially we cannot afford to send her to an IB school abroad- we cannot really afford to send her back to her old school either, but her grandmother has offered to help with fees if she does need to go back.

WWYD?

[beanlet]

Eco that's COMPLETELY WRONG. Medical applicants for Cambridge HAVE to have Chemistry. www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/medicine/requirements.html#alevel

[Yellowstone]

Some Cambridge colleges want Physics too.

[EcoLady]

beanlet bit harsh - not "completely" thank you. I omitted to paste in all the details ... which were available on the link for anyone who cared to click on it www.medschl.cam.ac.uk/education/courses/cgc/

"Cambridge Matriculation requirements and pre-medical requirements (equivalents may be offered):

GCSE in Physics, Biology & Mathematics (at grade C or above), A Level Chemistry (normally passed within seven years of entry) plus AS or A level passes in two of the following: Physics, Biology, Mathematics
A first or upper second class degree in any subject
Home or EU student status"

[Yellowstone]

duchesse if you do decide to go down the route of your DD1 joining your DD2 would she be fine with moving from a large co-ed school to an all-girls school with half the numbers? I only ask because lots of DDs would hate it and she was headed for a very different environment indeed.

Lots of posters have said stuff about the IB and Cambridge entry requirements already but I wonder if you've seen the breakdown of A2 results at your DD2's school? Cambridge at the moment seems to be taking quite a hard line with offerees who fail to get their A or A's. There's a similar breakdown on their website for your DD1's old school. Do you know what percentage of students at both get offers from Oxford and Cambridge and how that compares to other schools roundabout? There's a huge variation, but I'd have thought most options were open to your DD with her results and if her heart really is set on Cambridge then you may want to look at the stats to give her the best possible chance.

[TheBride]

If she's serious about studying at Cambridge, call the admissions tutor at one of the colleges and talk to them about their requirements. There's a world of difference between "minimum requirements" as posted on their website- these should be viewed as a "reserve price" rather than a "guide price" IMO. Ask them what the minimum grades were for admission to that course that year.

They can easily say "no higher maths is required" on the website, but if they have enough people with higher maths, then that still trumps not having it, all other things being equal.

[RowanMumsnet]

Hi there

Just to let you all know that we're going to move this one to 'What would you do?'

Thanks,
MNHQ

[duchesse]

Thank you very much all for your help.

[duchesse]

Ok, I've now emailed the college and a number of Cambridge admissions tutors. Will need to make a snappy decision in the next 3 days about what we're doing based on the answers I get.

[goinggetstough]

*yellowstone" yes the EPQ is part of the AQA baccalaureate but it is also a stand alone qualification, so can be taken along side A levels. My DC has just taken his AS levels and is doing an EPQ too which he will submit early next term in the Upper Sixth.

[Yellowstone]

Yes ggt, all I meant was that if duchesse's DD was going to do the AQA Bacc then the EP is part of the package.

duchesse I hope you don't find the Cambridge lot away until 5th Sept.

[duchesse]

I got a few out of office auto-replies saying they were back tomorrow yellow. Not expecting them to be in on August BH, even though on the whole Cambridge ignores bank holidays.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Can you email general admissions? Not that they will be in today either, but might be quicker getting back to you, as it's really their job unless she already knows which college she wants to go to.

Tel: +44 (0)1223 333308
Fax: +44 (0)1223 746868
Email: [email protected]

[duchesse]

First reply in, from Kings, and looking good:
Dear [duchesse],

Many thanks for your email and your / your daughter's interest in King's.

We receive plenty of IB applicants at King's and have a lot of expertise in assessing this qualification. Our standard IB offer at King's is 38 points overall (including bonus points) with 7, 6 and 6 at Higher Level. We do not normally specify which subject the 7 must be in.

Of students who have been admitted to start at King's in October, we have one Medic and one Physical Natural Scientist who did the International Baccalaureate. Doing this qualification does not confer an advantage or disadvantage in our process and we are not aware of IB students being more or less likely to miss their offer in general. In terms of performance at Cambridge, we have had some excellent students who have come from an IB background.

THE MATHS ISSUE

We would have no problem at all with making an offer on the basis of both A levels and IB. The important thing is to study the subjects to the right level. If you have a look at our entrance requirements, you'll see that we admit people doing all sorts of things from all over the world (www.kings.cam.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entrance-requirements.html) so whilst your daughter's situation may seem unusual in the UK system, in the great scheme of things it would pose us no problem. We admit strictly on academic potential and assess each application individually. And we are lucky to be able to invite people for interviews where we can sit down and work with them in person. We understand that there are differences in syllabus (and even when people are studying the same syllabus there are differences in schools, and in where people may have got up to by the time we meet them) but everyone is in the same position at interviews when we try to stretch students and see how they deal with unfamiliar material and respond to some teaching where appropriate. It isn't an interrogation interested only in what students know, but much more an opportunity for us to see how they work and think. We hope that all students, no matter what syllabus they are covering, will be doing plenty of extra work in their subjects anyway for their own interest.

SUBJECT COMBINATIONS

There are some differences in combinations since the IB has the different subject groups. For both Medicine and Natural Sciences the ideal combination would be to have 3 of Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Maths at Higher Level. Obviously a combination of Higher Biology, Physics and Chemistry would be impossible in the IB, however.

The rigour of IB Science and Maths subjects is good and we have no preference between A levels and IB. The school's realisation that not many people get 7's is testimony to the fact that IB results tend to be relatively stable - the number of people getting the highest grades tends to remain the same whereas A level statistics go up each year. You may like to have a good read of the IBO website which includes statisical bulletins showing the numbers getting each grade if you are concerned: www.ibo.org/ - note that we also have the information so there is nothing to worry about...

The big difference between IB and A levels is one of specialisation. Obviously studying IB involves keeping more subejcts going for longer (like students in many other countries). It is likely that your daughter will have views about whether she would prefer A levels or IB since they are so different. We would advise her to go with what she wants to do. The other factor is, of course, that if she takes SL Maths, she will presumably need to take one of her humanities up to Higher meaning spending more time on a subject which is not directly relevant - she would not want her performance in the maths/sciences subjects to suffer due to the extra time she needs to spend on French/History/English. I am afraid that I cannot answer your 4th question - it must be your daughter's decision. All I can say is that we would be entirely to happy to consider her whether she is doing IB, A levels or a (sensible) combination of the two. She should do what she feels would be best for her interests.

I hope that this helps.

One thing you can help me with - if possible, please could your provide a name and contact email for someone I could contact at the school to discuss IB Higher maths with them. I won't be in the office until Wednesday but I would like to have a chat with someone in the school about their maths provision in general if at all possible.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Wow, that's great isn't it? I'm impressed they want to get in touch with school too.

I expect you know, but Kings is very dedicated to making sure state school pupils get the best possible help to apply - sounds like they are taking it very seriously.

I hope your DD is feeling less worried now.

[duchesse]

It IS good isn't it? I'm so relieved. DD has gone out to a fete so she doesn't know yet but I'm looking forward to showing her the email- she's been a bit down about this all weekend.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Aw, that's great, she'll be cheered up I bet.

[Yellowstone]

On the UCAS form will your DD have to say that she was a private schooler up to GCSE? Or will universities assume she was a state schooler from the outset?

[duchesse]

Dunno. Shall have to ask DS who's just been through the whole process.

[duchesse]

DS thinks that she'll be a state school pupil for the purposes of their private/state school stats but that as far as he remembers he had to list his school(s) back to primary school, so presumably individual establishments will know that she was at private until 16.

[Yellowstone]

This is not personal at all duchesse but I do hope that private school kids who go state for their Sixth form don't get an unfair advantage when it comes to applying contextual data to their GCSE's. That would be wrong. Misrepresention in effect. Mine have never moved schools so it hasn't arisen.

I might take a look at DS's UCAS form which he's filling in at the moment.

I read King's e-mail as gently nudging her in the dirction of A Levels, don't you?

Did you ask which college she should apply to!

[Yellowstone]

Cross-posted. That's good. Hope it all sorts itself out, not surprised she's been a bit :(

[duchesse]

No, that's not how it read it at all! I read it as saying that she should pick the course SHE wants to do and see how she does at the end of it. Which is fine by us.

[goinggetstough]

Yellowstone why would private school kids who go state at sixth form get an unfair advantage as universities base their contextual data on the school they took their GCSEs and then their A levels. You do have to write down all the school you took exams at on your UCAS forms. This highlights whether they have gone to a successful school rather than whether it was state or private. What can muddy the waters are those who pay extra to be in a catchment area of a good state and then pay for extra tutoring..

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

yellowstone, loads of children move schools. They'll be used to it.

The reason I mentioned Kings and state schools is that they're probably very aware of the pressures non-selective schools have to run courses that their whole intake can manage, and the admissions tutor mentions wanting to get in touch with the teacher. It's about reasonable expectations - eg., if a child goes to a state school, wants to study classics, and hasn't done any Latin, that sounds normal. If a child goes to Eton, wants to study classics, and didn't bother with Latin A-Level, that sounds more as if the child didn't know what he wanted to do when he chose A Levels, which is a bit less impressive.