More of a WWYD actually- College now not offering 2 of the IB subjects that DD1 wanted to do

[duchesse]

DD is supposed to be starting the IB at our local 6th form college in a couple of weeks. She wanted to do Maths, Physics & Chemistry at higher level, and English, French and Philosophy at standard.

Yesterday at enrollment, the college tutor announced that they are now not doing Maths at higher level, and not philosophy at all. They have come up with a cunning wheeze instead of making those that wanted higher maths do a maths A level instead, taking the exams in the January session (ie two terms shorter than usual), then cramming Maths studies (aka Maths for the non-mathematical) into the Jan-May period in time for the exam.

DD is very upset about this- she feels that maths studies will be a waste of time for her since it is barely more than a GCSE, which she just took. She's not opposed to doing History instead of Philosophy but it is looking as though the syllabus is the same as the GCSE she just took (although probably in more depth) and is dreading doing same topics for another two years.

She and I both feel that they are just doing Maths studies for easy points rather than because they feel the students will benefit from it, and that worries me about the ethos of the course. Is it just going to be about exams?

The other problem is that whilst former school goes back on Thursday 1st Sept, college does not begin until September 12th, meaning that if she decides it's not going to work out at the college, she'll already have missed 2 weeks at least of term at school if she has to go back there.

She could go back to her former (fee-paying) school and do A levels, go to the fee-paying school her sister is at and do the AQA Baccalaureate which is similar to the IB but uses A levels as its base. Or she could go along with what the college has planned. Financially we cannot afford to send her to an IB school abroad- we cannot really afford to send her back to her old school either, but her grandmother has offered to help with fees if she does need to go back.

WWYD?

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

...Sorry, didn't explain properly but what I mean is, they might be giving different explanations for that reason, not just because some are more honest or more optimistic than others.

[duchesse]

tbh Yellowstone the number of GCSEs is pretty much irrelevant when applying to Cambridge. It is pretty much a given that any applicant in normal circumstances will have some and at good grades and will have done well in them as applicants tend to be a self-selecting group of people who are good at exams.

The GCSEs are just one indicator of potential. They only have the GCSEs to go on at the interview stage as proof of exam success, but as you know they are interviewing on everything else that makes up that person, both academically and socially. What they are trying to pick is interesting people who have not yet peaked academically- ie are on an upward trend. You cannot coach anybody in that.

[ellisbell]

I'm not quite getting this. If the college is the only one in the area does it only do IB or would she be able to do A level maths there? If they do A levels could she drop IB and do straight A levels instead? She can keep up French outside school if she can't do that at school.

[Yellowstone]

duchesse that's not all correct but if you think that you know it all and are so clear in the direction you want to go then, with respect, why the thread?

[Yellowstone]

ellis it does do A Levels but if the DD is going to do A Levels then it seems that she/ her mum would prefer her to go back to the independent sector and not go state.

[duchesse]

It's not a question of independent vs state for A levels. It's a known vs unknown thing with little time to decide. We have not even ruled out A levels at the college in fact. It has a lot going for it as an option especially for DD who is able to work independently, and not least the fact finding the money for returning to her former school would be tough.

[ellisbell]

since finding the money would be tough - and might take money that grandparents might otherwise give to help support her at uni? - why not go for the best state she can reasonably travel to and top it up with tutoring/ private revision courses if you think she needs it. I can see why you/she might prefer the IB but I wouldn't put choose that given the problems with maths.

Remember that what is achieved by the subset of well motivated and supported children with good GCSEs at state schools will not be the same as the overall rates for the school. They may achieve results as good as the independent. The aggresive way yellowstone posts would put me off the school her children attend but you may feel differently.

If she wants to do medicine then Biology is more useful than Physics, few med schools ask for Physics, quite a few require Biology at least to AS level. They do look for more than just good results, with qualities like empathy also having value.

[duchesse]

Thank you both very much idrilis and ellis.

Idrilis, thank you very for your insider view on whether doing an A level on top of the full IB is achievable- this was one of our worries. I think you are right about Cambridge college grade expectations- the only one so far that looks realistic is the King's one. (38 & 7, 6, 6) They really seem to know what they are talking about.

ellis, I agree with you about yellowstone's DCs' school, and also because if DD went there she would have to go back to yr 11 with the 15 year olds since they do a 3-year 6th form there - I really can't see her going for that as an option!

[duchesse]

and ellisbell- pen name of Emily Bronte, no?

[duchesse]

Reply from Corpus, & first frankly negative response:
Dear [duchesse]

It is a pity that Exeter College is no longer able to offer Higher Level Mathematics, and certainly your daughter would be competing with IB applicants who were able to take 2 sciences and mathematics at Higher Level and A level applicants who were taking 3 sciences/2 sciences and mathematics to A2. From an admissions perspective, any school-imposed constraints on subject choice are taken into account when applicants are being assessed, but if a viable alternative is available, as seems to be the case at Exeter College, then we would usually encourage applicants to take advantage of such opportunities. Obviously, I am not in a position to comment on how studying this mix of qualifications would work in practice, and how it might affect your daughter's final results.

With regard to your question about offer/acceptance numbers, as a small College with a proportionately low number of applications from students taking the IB at schools in the UK, I'm afraid that I cannot produce any meaningful statistics for you.

[Yellowstone]

ellisbell having been pointed last night in the direction of another fairly colourful thread where duchesse rails against the school that my kids go to, hers having not got in, I'm sure duchesse wouldn't go within 25 miles of it, even were there space and her DD was to get in.

Not in the least aggressive in the context of the other eye-opening thread!

Still, she needn't belittle the achievements of other hard-working and talented kids simply because they go to a very good school. They don't get their results without brains and hard work and I'm more than happy to defend them and would do so again.

[duchesse]

Tit Hall:
Dear [Mr and Mrs duchesse]



Thank you for your email. Looking back at last year?s admissions round, we received 52 applications from students taking the IB (out of 503 applications in total). Of these, 18 applied for science subjects (Engineering, Medicine, Natural Sciences, Veterinary Medicine). Within the sciences, we made 2 offers to IB students ? one for Engineering and one for Natural Sciences (Physical). With such a small proportion of the total applications, it is very hard to draw firm conclusions about the success or otherwise of IB applications in the sciences. Many different factors are used in the assessment of candidates, including previous exam results, predicted grades, personal statement, school reference, admissions tests and performance at interview. A decision would not be based on whether a student had taken A Levels or the IB.



A Levels and the IB each have their advantages for a science student, depending on what the student is interested in. The IB allows for more breadth, which is good for the student who wishes to continue with non-science subjects alongside the sciences. The A Level allows for more specialisation, which is good for the student who wishes to only study sciences. The A Level also allows for greater flexibility in taking science and maths options. For example, within the structure of the IB, it is not possible to take all three science subjects (Biology, Chemistry, Physics). However, even A Level students do not always choose to take all three subjects.



Our typical offer for the IB is around 40-42 points overall, with 7,7,6 at Higher Level. The subject requirements for Medicine and Natural Sciences are slightly different, so it is probably clearer to talk about each in turn.



MEDICINE

For Medicine, it would not be necessary for [your dd] to take Maths at HL (or, indeed, at A2 Level). However, to meet pre-medical requirements she must be taking ?Mathematics? at SL (or at AS Level). ?Math Studies? would not be sufficient on its own.



NATURAL SCIENCES (PHYSICAL)

Because [your dd] has chosen Physics and Chemistry, I am assuming she would be applying for the Physical sciences. Here, Maths is of greater importance. We would probably expect a 7 in HL Maths. However, if the school does not offer HL Maths then taking A Level Mathematics alongside the IB Diploma would be a perfectly acceptable alternative. If she takes A Level Maths then the Mechanics modules provide a better preparation than other optional modules.



I hope that helps. Please ask again if anything is unclear.

[duchesse]

Jesus:
Dear [duchesse]



Thank you for your email.



I will endeavour to answer your questions in order:

1.  We do not consider the IB science courses more or less rigorous than A-levels and have made offers to IB candidates on the sciences for a number of years.  The only disadvantage has been that not all schools have allowed students to take 3 sciences to Higher Level, we are one of the colleges that state we prefer to see three sciences to A2 level or equivalent.<br />
   

2) We have made offer to IB students for Natural Sciences and Medicine in the last few years our typical offer is 40 ? 42 points overall with scores of at least 7,7,6 at High Level or scores of 7 in all relevent science subjects.

3) With regard to a mix of an A-level and the IB, we have seen this before when a candidate specifically wishes to take a certain subject that is not offered on the IB (often Further Maths). To have a Maths A-level would certainly meet our requirements as we prefer to see three Higher level science subjects. If your daughter was successful in gaining the Maths A-level at a high grade she should have convered the sufficient level of maths to achieve the Maths Studies as Standard level in the IB.

4) As a college we would never advise an applicant or parents as to the course of action they should take, I am sure you can understand that we can only advise on the suitability of qualifications and the standard we are looking for.



I hope that this information has been of help to you.

[duchesse]

Christs:
Dear [duchesse],



Thank you for your email and your interest in Christ?s College.

1. The IB is regarded by UCAS and the University of Cambridge as fully equivalent to A Levels.
   
   
2. We make a few IB offers each year in medicine and the sciences, reflecting the proportion of applicants taking it. Our offers are usually 42 points overall, with 777 in the HL subjects. The vast majority of offer holders meet or exceed their offers, a similar situation to our A Level offer holders.
   
   
3. Doing the A Level as well is unusual, but would not have any appreciable effect on her application (provided her grades were appropriate).
   
   
4. It really depends on which courses your daughter would rather study and which she thinks she would be able to get the best results in.
   
   
   
   I hope this is helpful.

[Yellowstone]

Cross-posted.

But all the replies are negative to a greater or lesser degree, even King's.

[Yellowstone]

duchesse how on earth many colleges did you e-mail !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My kids would go ballistic if I wrote to anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[duchesse]

yellowstone, so that's why you flipped out suddenly last night! I don't think I make much of a secret of the fact I do not like your DCs' school. although your reaction is not improving my opinion of it. Many of the parents I meet from there bar a few (I do know some lovely laid-back ones) seem a little highly-strung. I still don't see why we can't co-exist peacefully in a world where you like the school and I don't, but frankly I don't care.

I do not like the assumption that emanates from there that they are the crème de la crème when in fact I know there are many children who choose not to apply even though they are perfectly able (my neighbour's child was one- his parents wanted all their children to go to the same sec school and didn't think some of the others would get in). Not talking about mine here since mine did apply and didn't get in, but other people's. Statistically this means that there will be children in every comprehensive in Devon who have the ability to be there but aren't for reasons entirely unconnected with their cleverness and hard work. Yes, kids are your school are clever and hard-working, but they are not the only ones in the county!!

It is however utterly irrelevant to this thread.

[Yellowstone]

It will certainly have had something to do with it.

Highly strung? You're meeting the wrong ones. I don't know any. The highly strung ones are generally the ones who get their kids into such a panic about the exam that they then crumple and fail to get in. I'd be furious if any of mine made out they were the creme de la creme. You'll find arrogance everywhere, but our school most certainly doesn't breed it. In fact I find the opposite true.

What I objected to last night was you belittling kids who are clever and work hard like your own DD has done because you have issues with the school.

[Yellowstone]

I've no idea why I keep pressing the wrong button and things are prematurely sent....

I intended to add that despite knowing how much you seem to resent the school and all those in it or connected with it, I've continued to try to help. I did try to share my experience of the IB the other day on the GCSE thread too (since my niece came a cropper) and I really do believe that your DD is much more likely to get where she wants to go if she does A Levels rather than this unsatisfactory mixed bag.

I'm pretty current on the UCAS stuff and if she were mine, aiming for medicine at Cambridge, I'd read between the lines of all those e-mails you got back and advise her to do four A2's and the EPQ. I'd also check out which schools locally seem to have the best provision for science, achieve the most A*'s and have the highest success rate at getting kids into Oxford and Cambridge.

[fraktious]

I find the lexicogrammar of their emails very telling. Of course they have to tell you that IB is equivalent to A-levels but reading them through (and do forgive me for reading critically, I'm procrastinating from a linguistics research project) I'm sensing that for science they prefer A-levels.

[fraktious]

And I say that as a massive fan of the IB, by the way.

[fraktious]

(Sorry for micro posts - told you I was procrastinating)

If your DD does decide to do IB (and if they were still offering maths it sounds like it would be excellent for her) then the emails from those colleges will be very useful for informing her choice when the time comes. Some are distinctly more accepting than others in tone.

[duchesse]

That's what I thought fraktious- every college has different admissions criteria and I think that their ethos is reflected in many of those emails. I've developed a soft spot for two in particular just from their replies- some seem a lot more welcoming than others.

[Yellowstone]

You may have been very dismissive duchesse, but it's good to have my initial reaction to the first e-mail corroborated not only by six out of seven of the subsequent e-mails but also by an analysis of the linguistics. A Levels are clearly the favoured option. It may also be wise to remember the pool, particularly for a subject like Medicine.