Appealing against Permanent Exclusion

[McTemp]

Would love to pick some brains out there! A friend of mine has a daughter in Year 8 who has just been permanently excluded, and this exclusion has been upheld by the Governing body. Parents want to appeal this decision.

The reason given for the exclusion was "persistent distruptive behaviour", and they outlined a number of examples of this.

While parent doesn't dispute most of these took place, it is clear that this is a very high achieving school, and her daughter struggles academically (School Action Plus for dyslexia), and I think the school are keen to get rid of the child, as her grades affect their results.

The child in question is also deaf in one ear, and parents would like to appeal because they don't believe their daughters disabilities have been taken into account. The decision letter states:

"staff received training how to deal with deafness on an annual basis, but accepted that perhaps not all teachers were aware of X's hearing loss."

Parents believe that the child's misbehaviour in class arose because of her disability as it was likely that she couldn?t hear instructions given to her and was placed in the back of the class when she should have been at the front.

Has anyone got advice about what the exclusion appeal process is like, and what sort of things parents might need to prove?

But at the end of the day the parents should be more proactive with their child and deal with the issues. Why? Because they are the parents, not the op.

Have to agree there are some very nasty attitudes on this thread from one person in particular who appears not to have had the benefit of a proper education.

Clearly, the girl is no angel, that much I'm sure everyone can agree on. However, it does appear that the school has not followed correct proceedures and on that basis I think the OP is doing the right thing in supporting the girl and her family.

I hope the appeal is dealt with fairly and the right decision is made.

I can understand why parents of hearing impaired children are offended at the implication that this explains bad behaviour.

HOWEVER, having a hearing impairment can make you vulnerable to other children who want to make your life difficult.

Other children do sometimes take pleasure in misinforming the hearing impaired child so that they get into trouble. I have also known of children hiding hearing aids from the hearing impaired child. This does seem to happen more in secondary school which could explain why she did well in her primary.

cookcleanerchaufferetc -it's very difficult if you aren't familiar with the system.

I think the trouble is her parents cannot read or write. Its hard enough to understand anyway, thats why its nice of Mctemp to get involved.

I think this thread proves how people are quick to judge and put the boot in. I expect there are a few teachers like this too.

As cruel as it sounds, I would probably look at changing schools.

I can see this from both sides and both are hard to make a call

Disruptive children cause no end of problems for the rest of the class, disrupt education and means that other children dont get the one-one attention they need because all the attention is focussed on one child, all the time. The other children then become disallusioned and more children believe it is better to misbehave rather than study which escalates the problem.

If there are health reasons causing her disruption, these should be investigated and worked with, to help support the child, but there are many many children who have health issues, hearing problems, sight problems, etc who are not disruptive.

Once a child has got into the situation where the school feels they cant do any more, cant teach the child, cant help the child, then the best thing is to move on with new teachers new friends new environment. She will never change whilst in the same environment. There is presumably various triggers that cause her disruptive behaviour. Teachers can become very jaundiced about their views and react with their body language, so even if a child does behave, work hard, try their best, their previous reputation works against them.

Sometimes a new environment can help children, and I personally wouldnt want my children in a school where they are not wanted, helped, supported, guided, etc.

I just saw in a followup post the school isnt following protocol. I would take up this issue so that they dont ignore it in the future.

I really agree with you road art she would be better of in a different school.

However I have never taught a class where just one person can disrupt that much. I think you have to engage the child and find good in them. Lots of other teachers I know are not prepared to do this.

Some of the people that have posted are my worst nightmare as they will always think there child is perfect and will not listen they often blame another pupil which is not the case.

was googling for an article I read recently that stated (I think) that travellers are more likely to excluded than other ethnic groups and found this - they might be able to give advice/help to the parents also

At least for a short while yet, until the new Education Act becomes law, the independant appeal panel does have the option of coming to a conclusion that whilst the school were incorrect in permanently excluding a pupil, that the level of breakdown of trust betweeen the school and parents is such that the pupil should not be returned to the school.
The problem in this case is that the available other school seems a very long way away and that the parents want the pupil re-instated in the current school. A difficult decison for the panel when they hear this appeal.

Hangon, I do agree with you, some IAP cases I have heard the level of evidence was completely overwhelming but the parents still seem unable to accept that their child is capable of such incidents. They simply are not living in the real world and are actually doing their child no favours by not accepting that there is an issue with their offspring.

Yes admission it happens but I have also had the more well do to do parents come in if their child had a bad result then will blame all the other kids around them and will not listen.

The louder kids which are often travellers get picked up for things a lot more.

Then you get the kids of mothers some that are on here whose kids get away with loads because mum is down kicking up a fuss over nothing.

I think the type of teaching is not working at the moment it needsd to change do you really need to wear a tie and blazer to get a good edducation?

Hi Hangon.

I have worked in classes where just one child can be extremely disruptive, violent and a danger to other children. I am now helping in a class where there are several children who are extremely disruptive to the extent that the learning for all the other kids just isnt happening. (well it is, but they are not getting the full focus they need.)

I agree that the style of teaching has to be changed for these minority, but the teacher has to still get through the curriculum and doesnt have time to change her ways to suit these disruptive children. I have observed her trying all sorts of differnet methods to engage them, but nothing works. THey dont have learning difficulties as such, but I believe they were on the lower levels academically, but not low enough to have warrantied one-to-one attention, so their self-esteem is very low, they believe they cant do the work so wont try. As they have got older, this situation has escalated so badly they just dont/wont co-operate in class, with anything.

The school have tried every kind of discipline they can, but have a policy of every child matters so dont do exclusion. They work on the basis that they must work to draw the child back in to be educated. It does work for some, but not for others.

I know that the teachers do work extremely hard to help these children and do not accept it is bad teaching. The children are not controlled at home and reflect this behaviour in school. When a child moves from teacher to teacher and still behaves the same way, then it proves it is not the teacher's fault.

As a parent I get frustrated to see the amount of time that is wasted because of these disruptive children. I see other children get aggrevated that they cant get on with what they should be doing or that they dont get the teacher's attention. I see the other children get upset that they dont get rewarded for being good, but these "naughty" children get rewards all the time.

roadart - how does that observation fit with the lamb enquiry's evidence that children with SEN are 8 times more likely to be excluded than children without SEN? Often these children do have undiagnosed SEN.

Do you think broken nose boy's parents kicked up a stink and the school is reacting to that? Just a thought.

Having spent a lot of time in schools observing classes for reasons I won't go into here (other than to say I don't work for Ofsted), I think there is a bit of both. Some pupils are disruptive no matter what the teacher does. However, some teachers are much better at controlling disruptive pupils than others. And I have come across some teachers who were completely incapable of controlling any class.

The extent to which it can be down to individual teachers was really driven home when I followed one class through an inner city comprehensive for a day. In one lesson with a very talented, inspirational teacher they were very well behaved and there was no disruption at all. In the next with a teacher who had clearly given up all attempts to control them the entire class completely ignored the teacher. The teacher simply delivered the lesson, ignoring everything that was going on in the class but I doubt any of the pupils heard a single word that was said.

And to add to cornsilksy's point:

• roughly 4 in 10,000 children without SEN get permanently excluded
• that rises to 33 in 10,000 children with a statement of SEN
• for children with SEN but no statement it rises to 38 in 10,000

SEN children are also more likely to be subjected to fixed term exclusions (which are legal) and informal or unofficial exclusions (which are illegal even if the parents agree to them). From this the only possible conclusion I can see is that either children with SEN are far worse behaved than their peers or schools are not very good at handling such children.

And in response to triskaidekaphile, if that is the case it is appalling. The school has already disciplined the girl for the incident. They should not now discipline her further because the parents of the other child kick up a stink. Even if the other child was completely innocent that would be wrong. Given that the other child seems to be guilty of sexual harrassment which the school has chosen to ignore, excluding this girl on that basis would be seriously adding insult to injury.

I totally agree it would be appalling, prh47bridge. Sadly it would not surprise me, however, particularly if the boy's background is more of a "fit" with a so called aspirational school or if he has pushy demanding parents who refuse to acknowledge that he did something very wrong which triggered the girl's response. I feel very sorry for this girl, if all the reports from McTemp are accurate.

I totally agree that many parents do not accept that their children are badly behaved at school.

Some kids are absolutely horrendous. However, when you see how these kids behave around their parents, the parents dont see it as a problem or that it is normal behaviour

UPDATE. Appeal to be heard this week - the school deferred it with parents consent as the Head was away and would not have been able to be present, and the school said that without the Head there the IAP Panel would have deferred it anyway.

The girl is currently in the PRU and flourishing. From my 'inside knowledge' (that I can't declare to the parents/panel without outing myself), the school that the girl is going to be moved to is a Special school now (not the all girls school that was previosly suggested) and the girl is currently undergoing the process for a statement (parents know a statement is being 'considered' - they don't know (like I do) that the statement is a definite, and that so is the special school if their appeal is unsuccessful).

IMO, the fact she is being statemented now shows the school was negligent. This should have happened whilst she was at the school, and a permanent exclusion could have been averted. I have read the whole file (300+ pages long!) that the school has prepared for the IAP, and I still stick by my initial asertion that they have been negligent in their duty of care towards her.

I actually think the special school would be better for her, but I still want the Panel to still acknowledge the school was wrong in excluding.

I was wondering how you got on. Can she not stay at the PRU.?

Hope they win the appeal.

If you have not got a good case, make sure it is a long one to try and bamboozle every one! 300 pages is certainly a long one, but hopefully the IAP will see through the attempt to blind them with data and be able to get to the core issues.

Thank you so much for all your help and advice - the exclusion was not upheld by the IAP (yay!), and acknowledged the school had made some serious errors.

The girl was not reinstated at the school, however, as dad agreed at the panel that a fresh start would be best for the girl, and acknowledged how much the girl's grades and behaviour had improved since she had been taken out of the school and put into the PRU. Not entirely sure what provisions will be made for the girl now as she is no longer an excluded pupil, but the LA are being very accomodating, so I have a feeling its all going to be a happy ending.

A serious thanks to those of you who gave help and advice - in the submission I made on behalf of the parents, I copied (plagarised?! )many of your words exactly, and it obviously had the right effect on the panel. Thank you so much.

well done to you Mctemp they have proved a point. Its very unusual for this to happen so well done.

Hope the girl does really well and thanks for telling us the ending.

Glad to hear that all went well.
As redglow says, not that many are successful, which is not an indication that the IAPs side with the school but that most of the time the school / head do get it right. Unfortunately heads are humans like everybody else and sometime they do get it wrong, which is exactly what an IAP is there for.
It is incredibly worrying that shortly, if Mr Gove gets his way, IAPs will not have the power to overturn and the new exclusion code will be putting heads in a position where they may more or less do what they want with pupils, who do not fit in their school.

Having read the Education Bill that is currently going through parliament, my understanding is that IAPs are being replaced by review panels with different powers. A review panel can uphold the decision of the responsible body (the governors for most schools), recommend that the responsible body reconsiders the case or, if it considers that the responsibly body's decision was flawed, quash the decision and order them to reconsider the case. If the panel decides to quash the responsible body's decision it will, in some circumstances, be able to order a change to the school's budget. The panel will also have other powers. For example, the accompanying guidance suggests they may have the power to direct what is put on the pupil's record. However, unlike current appeal panels, the review panel will not be able to order the school to reinstate the pupil.

Is there a draft of the new code available? I haven't seen it yet.

admission - I would be interested to know what you think of the changes. My immediate reaction is that it could lead to a game of ping pong where the governors exclude a pupil, the review panel quashes the decision, the governors reconsider and exclude again, the review panel quashes the new decision and so on. I would hope that most governors would take on board the review panel's decision and act accordingly but I have come across schools with governors who could be obstructive in this kind of situation.

McTemp - Should have said in my last post that I'm glad it went well. I am pleased that this girl now doesn't have a permanent exclusion on her record and that she is doing well in the PRU. I hope this does have a happy ending for her.

McTemp,

Was wondering how the appeal was going, thanks for posting.

Really pleased all seems to have worked out in the end for the girl involved and that a school has been found that can help her. Hope she settles in well.

It is nice to see some good news amongst all the doom and gloom.