GCSE Choices - Music or Latin?

[sweatybrawearer]

DS1 is about to make his GCSE choices. He's doing the usual maths, English, 3 sciences and so on, and has to choose four options, one of which has to be a modern language.

He wants to do history, geography, French and music. He likes music, plays violin and viola, and sees it as a less academic option which will give him a break from his other studies.

DH, however, wants him to do Latin instead. It's always been one of his best subjects (although he's less keen on it than he was, so is not putting the same amount of effort into it as he used to). DH thinks it will be more useful in the longer-term than music.

Does anyone have any experience/advice about either? Thanks!

psychology is very popular and therefore demands high grades. Science subjects, maths and GCSE english make a difference to where he might apply. I don't think anywhere would be interested in Latin. If he changes his mind and does history then Latin might have some relevance but he could possibly drop another academic subject (geography?) and do both Latin and music.

bufforpingtonchick - thanks also for the info. That explains why DDs school now insist on reading music as they use EDEXCEL.

OK for DD as she plays 3 instruments. (although school are a bit biased against her first instrument, buts that's another story)

Quite surprised her school have not changed boards, as they always seem to have far more singers than instrumentalists.
They are offering extra theory lessons to get the singers up to speed though.
And they also offer BTEC Performing Arts for those that really just want the practical side.

I also don't understand why some posters are saying that children can be too musical to enjoy GCSE Music. Surely they have the opportunity to perform at the level they are at, but can lower slightly to get the possible mark. If they are above the level of others in the GCSE group, they can perform their ensemble work with outsiders.

I agree - I have a couple of grade 6 instrumentalists and they have loved the course. They can bring people in from outside to do the ensemble, or perform with 6th formers or staff. The Composition is hard for everyone!

In the nicest possible way, neither are core subjects generally, neither are core subjects for his future plans, so in my view it's not really up to you or your DH - you should definitely let him choose. Agree with pagwatch, it's his choice, it's his lookout!
(And I did a half-Latin half mod-lang degree so could be expected to be biased - one way or the other )

Don't know what requirements are now, but in my day music O level was (for me personally) the hardest O level I did. You had to play an instrument to a certain level, do an aural paper, and a general music knowledge paper, plus analyse pieces in lot of detail. So unlike Latin you couldn't just learn it all by heart (which is what I did, including the set texts) - you actually needed some aptitude for the subject. I am much prouder of my B in music than my A in Latin.

I did both music and latin gcse.

latin because I loved it. truly, deeply loved it. I went on to do A level, and languages at university, and it was a great help for me. fantastic.

having said that, latin gcse was not the most challenging thing I have ever done [understatement]. the set pieces were easy, the papers had no depth. it really steps up for A level, imo (or did, way back when! )

music was also chosen because I enjoyed it. I was grade 6 in 2 instruments (oboe and piano) when I chose it, so no slouch. it was far from easy. I am surprised to see posters saying that eg set works are being added this year. we had set works to study - I will never listen to those pieces in the same way again! as well as composition and performing, and theory etc. it is a far from easy option, but nonetheless enjoyable (if you are that way inclined)

I did a Latin degree, I hugely enjoyed it and am a passionate advocate for the pleasures and usefulness of Latin.
BUT it doesn't appeal to everyone. And I have a large music-shaped gap in my own education.
I think there is a lot of power in being able to present the pros and cons of both choices to your ds and letting him decide. He will be motivated to put the effort into a subject of his choice, whatever that turns out to be. There are few enough choices in life, as we get older, after all...

Quite swiddle. And it's been great to find out more and get the pros and cons from people who know more about Latin and music than DH and I do. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

I would say drop the Geography and do Latin and Music. Dd has made her GCSE choices this year and at her school a creative subject is strongly recommended. Quality not quantity. Eton only take 5 GCSEs.

I'd say drop Geography unless he prefers it to either of the other two, which he might. The main rule here should be that they enjoy the subjects they choose.

Agree with Cammelia that a creative subject is good and shows versatility.

Slight problem about quality/ quantity is that plenty of pupils have both and that's the competition they're up against at university application level (think an Eton parent might jump in to remonstrate about the 5 GCSE's....).

Strawberries -- I also truly loved Latin (did it to A-level), to the deep embarrassment of my little sister, who on her first day at secondary had to hear the head saying 'and the Latin prize goes to Lance, who tells me she took it for pleasure'. Poor kid felt her card was marked from the start after that.

lancelottie

I am the youngest, so I suppose my siblings were spared that embarrassment!

I was the only pupil to take A level Latin, so gave the Director of Studies a big headache trying to timetable it . and Greek, too, although that was crammed into lunchtimes/free time after school.

ah, those were the days!

Greek! Oh, now I'm jealous. We had five A-level Latin pupils at our school -- not sure any of us would have fancied being left alone with the Latin teacher (justifiably, as it later turned out...)

OK, the die is cast. Thanks to everyone for their advice and suggestions. DS1 is going to do

French
Latin
history
music

I don't remember it being this hard to decide in my day, although I do remember my form teacher trying to steer me towards domestic science instead of the modern language I ended up doing to degree level. Fortunately my parents thought that domestic science was a waste of an option and supported me taking the additional language instead.

Thanks again, I really wasn't expecting as many posts when I started this thread.

omg lancelottie

I have Latin GCSE, A'level and a degree in Latin too. As a result my vocabulary is quite good but I wouldn't say it's done me any huge favours. Although I did meet my DH at uni so it wasn't all wasted time.

Go for music.

Were you at school in South London Lance and did you do the Cambridge Latin Course? (seemed to provide ample scope for asking Y8 girls to swap school unform for skimpy towels to be Metella/ Caecilius/ Quintus/ Grumio etc.). Stupidly, it never occured to us it was dodgy....

uniform, not unform..

Unless he/she is going to be Doctor then MUSIC!!!!

Yellowstone -- nope, I'm a northerner, but my god we learnt a lot of texts about the rape of Lucretia, the rape of the Sabines, the rape of Io, the love affairs of Zeus, the pursuit of lovely-limbed girls into caves where the passion raged within while the storm clouds raged without...

Actually, OP, music might well be a safer choice!

I teach Latin in a state school. I love it; I love the kids that choose to take it (you'll probably find small classes of nice, studious children) - but, by heck, it's difficult! There are four exam papers, all challenging. The one my class sat today (Language paper 2) is the hardest. I'm a musical wally, so I can't give you any advice about a choice, but I would say with Latin that it's really not worth choosing it unless your DS (a) really enjoys it already and (b) has an excellent memory, plus an interest in the historical background.

I didn't take Latin at school myself and picked it up at university, so my own experience of learning it is not really relevant, but I do know how many bright, hardworking children I've taught over the past ten years who have found it more challenging than any of their other subjects. They almost always do well in the end, but there is usually a moment of panic late in year 10 or early in year 11 when they hit 'the wall' and suddenly find that they just can't do it for about six weeks. If your son is generally bright and has never really experienced difficulty academically, this might be quite frightening for him. I always think that it's character-building for bright kids to find something hard for a change, but whether this is true for him depends on how sensitive he is.

Universities love it, but only if you do well. Anecdotally, it's roughly 1 1/2 -2 grades harder than other subjects, so if he would expect to get A* in, say, English, he'd expect to get A-B in Latin with a similar amount of work. Therefore, he'll have to work harder in Latin.

Good luck with the choices.

God, is it? I mean, I always thought it was fun but a bit of a soft option, because you didn't have to speak it or translate into it, only from Latin to English, so it was akin to doing crossword puzzles and I mostly did the homework on the bus. Maybe that's changed?

OP here under a different name. What a difference a year makes.

DS1 did not go for music in the end. And told me over half term (of his own accord, not via a parental grilling!) that he was really glad he hadn't once he'd seen the amount of work involved for those who opted for it - definitely not the soft option he thought it would be. He STILL has not got around to talking his grade 4 in violin (which he said last year he was keen to do). And seems to be doing OK in Latin. He now wants to be a doctor or a sports physical therapist instead of a psychologist. All's well that ends well!

Well done to your DS and it's nice to get an update. Didn't realise until the last post it was an old thread.