School trip costing £640 & only 50 places for 420 eligible. Reasonable?

[iloverhubarb]

My DD's school plans a week's trip to Spain next year, focus is watersports, abseiling etc. For year 7 and 8, so potentially 420 pupils, only 50 places.

I have two concerns, and really want to know if I am being over the top or reasonable in planning to write to the school about them:

1. Cost, will exclude many, becomes exclusive experience for small number of girls whose parents are able to afford a top of the range hol for them. Surely focus should be on selecting children who unlikely to get this opportunity otherwise - or at least making sure they can take part somehow. Why are they not using a UK activity based youth hostel?

1. Allocation of places on first come first served is clearly mad. Letters went out yesterday, almost all places gone this morning? Huh? (clearly money not an issue for some!) Luckily DD accepts we can't afford, so this process not an issue for us. Just weird. The olympics application process looks sensible in comparison. Hysteria on the roads outside school this am!

My main issue is that I think school trips should have an educational or social purpose, and should be accessible to the majority. Any teachers out there who know whether there is a national requirement for a state school in terms of strategy/purpose of school trips, or would this be up to individual school? Is this just a freebie/perk for a few PE teachers!!

thanks for any thoughts

tbh I am often thankful that places are limited on these expensive trips; otherwise it would be far harder for those of us who often have to refuse our children to go

Swedish school can no longer run any school trips at all, not even day trips to places of interest unless within local area, as they are not allowed to charge anything for coach hire or entrance fees

It's a state school yes? Not private, with lots of wealthy ones? So, how do you decide who can't afford it? Because we (to you, who knows nothing of our finances) would assume we could afford it - middle class, both working, educated type jobs. And you would assume that a single parent on benefits couldn't?
No-one ever seems to think it's not black and white. The ridiculous assumptions on these threads about how much spare money other people must have are mind boggling.

I agree that these trips can be a bit divisive. Looking back on my recollections of my school days I do remember feeling quite miffed and left-out about not getting to go on various trips.

However, strongly disagree that these trips are any kind of jolly for teachers!

Swedish school can no longer run any school trips at all, not even day trips to places of interest unless within local area, as they are not allowed to charge anything for coach hire or entrance fees

That would be dreadful.

The crappy comp I left in the late 80s had an annual skiing trip that my mum could never afford send me on. It was no biggie. The ones who could go were in a distinct minority.

We're in the same situation as some others here; the big ££££ trips are the kind of thing we couldn't afford to do as a family, but we could manage (given enough notice) to send ds (he would have to contribute too - working if old enough, and by saving birthday and Christmas money). There must be many people in our situation - and I think it would be a bloody shame if these opportunitie were withdrawn for being "unfair".

Good news that a lottery system has been adopted though OP. I think a lottery system with conditions attached to behaviour and so on is the way to go.

Who exactly was having "Hysteria on the roads outside school this am"? Was it the children or the parents? If the parents, why were they anywhere near the school - children of that age should be walking/cycling/public transporting to school.

I think travel is great but as others have said, it's entirely possible to go to a country with a very different culture and absorb very little. Am thinking of student 'travellers' who spend two months smoking weed in video bars in Thailand.
It's all relative isn't it. I don't think any of my comprehensive school peers had ever set foot on a Scottish hillside, let alone rowed a boat, riddenahorse ona beach, tried windsurfing. It was an entirely different culture for us

Oh I couldn't agree more, Norman.

By not offering skiing trips/med watersports trips the school is not denying students the opportunity to go. These trips are in fact put together by travel companies. If you want your child to go on such a trip you can book it directly with someone like PGL. By booking directly your child can go on the activity holiday of their choice. At the same time they will meet up with different children (rather than the ones they sit with day in, day out).

The big trips offered by schools are seldom particularly good value once you recognise the lack of choice on offer.

When schools offer these trips they give them a fake air of educational merit which is entirely undeserved. If people want to send their children on youth trips then fine, they can do so, I just really do not think that state schools should be lending their names to them.

Quite, Kez100.

I'd love to visit Egypt - BUT only if I can climb into a time machine and turn up in the 1920s or 30s. Ds feels the same. People who have visited tell me how vile it is now with hundreds of thousands of coach parties clogging up everywhere.

Dd's primary school only take trips to free places. The cost is all in the coach and the insurance. The range of free outings where we live is not very exciting. Twice a year they troop off to Southampton Art Gallery. The National Gallery it ain't. Even the most dedicated worshipper of art would be hard pressed to spend more than 15 minutes in there.

GnomeDePlume : we've not seen very many ruins. The main ones would be Paphos in Cyprus we saw last when he was about 8 (he is just 13 now and found his passion when he was 11) The mosaics, the Odeon and Kurion. He wants to go back to Cyprus - he just generally loved it there - but summer is too hot (and we cannot get two weeks off which doesn't have important UK things going on at any other time). Maybe France could be on our list.

He didn't particularly enjoy the school London trip. I thought the itinerary was fantastic (and it was) but he's not a glossy sort of lad. He'd probably have been happier getting involved in soup kitchens (finding out the stories behind 'hobos' and why they have ended up where they are) or in a market rifleing through dusty stuff .

Kez100 - sounds like France would be just the place for your son! The Roman arena in Arles is still in use, you can go in and clamber all over it. Personally I think France is a wonderful place to see French history still in use.

I think that this is the problem with school trips - a series of prescribed activities - rather getting the sense of a place or doing a bit of discovery for ones self.

I agree that a lottery system is a much fairer way of allocating places on these trips, but I strongly disagree that schools shouldn't be offering them.

They are a fantastic opportunity for our children, and even if you can only afford for your child to go on one of these trips during their 5-7 years at secondary school, that's still one fantastic memory you can give them.

I have wonderful memories of going skiing with my school, and I didn't go with my usual group of friends so it gave me the chance to form friendships with people I wouldn't have got to know otherwise. I only went once, but I remember that one single week with fond memories nearly thirty years later. It's the only time I have ever experienced skiing, because it's not something my family ever did, and I have since persued other hobbies, but I'm very grateful that I had the chance to go.

Denying all children an opportunity because some cannot afford it is not a fair way of doing things at all. There might be parents that can't afford it because they are a family of five that takes an exotic holiday already every year. There might be parents who could afford it, but don't want to do anything with their holiday time other than sit on the same beach in Spain every year. Or parents that can afford it and would love their children to have that experience, but they couldn't do that sort of holiday because of work, younger siblings, parents having caring responsibilities, disability in the family, or many other personal reasons. Why should all children miss out because some can't afford it?

I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of parents couldn't afford even one of the less expensive trips in the entire time their child is at secondary school. They may have to work or save harder than others, but more often than not, there is some choice involved.

my school had a skii trip, i didnt even bother giving the letter to my mum, she found out later, i said mum it was too expensive, she said i would have found a way, but i wasnt that bothered, it was all the rich, sporty types who already went skiin on a regular basis that went i would have spent the whole holiday on my own on the baby slope probably.

I get confused by the English years (in Scotland) but presume years 7 and 8 are first and 2nd year secondary school. When I was at school in England there was an annual skiing trip that my parents couldn'y afford to send me on. I just accepted that. This trip sounds of similar price to school skiing trips.
a week long trip all pupils can afford is going to be difficult to find, and getting the numbers of teachers to staff it and somewhere to put 400+ pupils is near impossible so expecting a school trip for 400 that all can afford is unreasonable.
Most schools choose their trips depending on the interests and enthusiasm of the various teachers to go on the trips, and at my kids' schools the trips offered seem a bit random and dependant on a particular enthusiastic teacher willing to give up his/ her holidays to supervise and organise it.
At their primary school there were hardly any school trips as the headmaster though they were a pain in the bum.
Even at £600 this trip may be affordable to some families who can afford to send 1 child to spain for a week but couldn't afford to all go as a family if they had to pay 3 or 4 times that amount, plus the parents might hate the activities.

I went on a school skiing trip when I was around 15. I paid for it myself by working at the local supermarket. It was the only opportunity I got to ski until I was an adult, so I am grateful the chance was there.

That said, it was absolutely done on the cheap and priority was given to hiking club members (of which I was one) so they could see that it was people who liked the outdoors who went.

I agree with @bubblecoral regarding the lottery system - it is fair. However parents/kids should not get hung up about whether or not they are selected to participate otherwise you are setting yourselves up for disapointment.

If you don't get selected then be grateful that you have saved some money and do something else instead.

Trips are good, educational and fun - why shouldn't they be? The girls bond with eachother/muck in with the activities/learn from one another/spend quality time away from family and potentially find new friends.

Not every parent is loaded with cash and you don't have to be. I've been putting aside a little bit of money each month for emergencies, trips, educational days and if you make the most of the staggered payment system that the school has in place for these trips it helps those of us who are less well off.

I fully support and admire the teachers taking our kids away on these trips - it's not a jolly - they are effectively on standby 24/7 to ensure our kids are safe and yes, it is tempting to take those girls who are reputed to be better behaved than others.

I'm sure the PFA would love to do more to help but from what I understand they desperately need more visible support from parents (you guys for example!) to participate in the Committee and help generate more revenue and sponsorship from the fund-raising activities that they do each year.

The lottery system is operated at our school but it's always the same kids whose names come out. With the result my son is now entering his final (6th) year of secondary school and has never had so much as a day trip with the school. Why can't they discount applications for those kids who've already had trips with the school and give those whose names have never been picked a chance? Then if there are any places left, they could be offered to those who've been before. My son never causes any trouble, works hard and we're always told he's a good team player in class and brings groups together. Am ashamed to be a former pupil of his school as their motto is "opportunity and fairness for all" - seems that it is now opportunity and fairness for the chosen few...

I should point out that there are several children in the school who are in his year who have been on 5 trips abroad in 5 years at the school...

I think in Nosilac's case I might be tempted to write to the school saying that giving priority to children who hadn't been on previous school trips would be fairer to children than a random lottery when the same children may be picked every year.
My son's school operates first come first served which is a pain for him as he's very forgetful, it does encourage him to get his act together a bit re showing us letters and handing them back in though, but I agree isn't fair for parents who have to think about whether they can afford it for a few days.

Interesting to hear the comments - generally I'm supportive of school trips (most schools have always run the annual ski trip, foreign exchange etc) however I'm concerned about the trend to go for newer, more holiday based trips. There is no pretence from the school that it's educational but the costs as crazy - £1500, New York for 7 days (food not always included) and the emphasis is on shopping !! Schools appear to view this as marketing tool as it's highlighted on the prospectus and newsletter and impressionable teens can't determine value for money or true benefit.

I'm see it is a trend which I don't believe is a good thing - it impacts the educational trips (such as language exchange) as given a choice the teens want to head to trendy locations not a week with a French family!

All high schools I know of offer trips like these.

I think it's become silly. There's a certain amount of pressure to go, to join in with friends, and it's not an efficient way to pay for a holiday.

But if people can't afford it, they don't go. I don't agree with your beef about them.

I think the offer of trips is great, nobody is forced to go on them and many people like their children having the opportunity.

All through life people will have different budgets but it doesnt mean there should only be one product etc so that people dont feel left out.

I dont think the PTA should assist though, as a parent I give to the PTA to benefit all children not just a few.