School trip costing £640 & only 50 places for 420 eligible. Reasonable?

[iloverhubarb]

My DD's school plans a week's trip to Spain next year, focus is watersports, abseiling etc. For year 7 and 8, so potentially 420 pupils, only 50 places.

I have two concerns, and really want to know if I am being over the top or reasonable in planning to write to the school about them:

1. Cost, will exclude many, becomes exclusive experience for small number of girls whose parents are able to afford a top of the range hol for them. Surely focus should be on selecting children who unlikely to get this opportunity otherwise - or at least making sure they can take part somehow. Why are they not using a UK activity based youth hostel?

1. Allocation of places on first come first served is clearly mad. Letters went out yesterday, almost all places gone this morning? Huh? (clearly money not an issue for some!) Luckily DD accepts we can't afford, so this process not an issue for us. Just weird. The olympics application process looks sensible in comparison. Hysteria on the roads outside school this am!

My main issue is that I think school trips should have an educational or social purpose, and should be accessible to the majority. Any teachers out there who know whether there is a national requirement for a state school in terms of strategy/purpose of school trips, or would this be up to individual school? Is this just a freebie/perk for a few PE teachers!!

thanks for any thoughts

reductio ad absurdum

Curiously (and not very logically) I wouldn't mind if the trip was organised by the PTA or similar. I just feel uncomfortable with arranging an official school trip from which some kids are automatically excluded on the grounds of cost.

Unfortunately Mynameis, my school didn't teach ancient Greek so I don't understand your post but are you saying that as long as all children are treated as financial equals its OK to treat them differently in all other aspects of school life ?

caughtinanet, kids with limited talent are not excluded from "extra help with drama, art, sport etc" on the grounds of cost.

No, I was saying it was a pointless comparison. However, there is really no point discussing this any further. We disagree. I think children get a crappy enough deal as it is without having ski holidays and spanish breaks that they cannot have waved under their noses. You think its great. Fair enough.

Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to the absurd") is a form of argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd consequence

I don't see the problem, it is a trip offered by the school, not a school trip (for educational purposes) per se.

DD has been on school skiing trips, I think most schools offer them. She doesn't go to an exalted establishment certainly, a comp in a rough area.

The costs seems about right, dd's trip was about a grand, and yes there has to be a restriction, dd's school has 2000 kids in, only 35 spaces for the trip.

Their policy was first come, first served, with a waiting list. If any child had a detention or something in te meantime the place would be revoked, deposit forfeited and someone on the waiting list would gain the place. This was made very clear when paying the depsosit.

I think you would be unreasonable to complain.

BTW the school trip was in the easter holidays, so the teachers gave up their own time to do it.

grovel - yes, you're right but I was wondering why only financial discrimination was a problem when school live is full of differences between pupils.

Not just school life of course, I don't see that's it at all realistic or desirable to act as if those differences don't exist.

Mynameis - always happy to agree to differ (and the ancient Greek bit was a joke)

I only have primary aged kids (year 5) at the moment but our neighbours girl in year 8 was telling me about a ski-ing trip taking place later this year and allocation wasn't done on a first come, first served basis it was given to the children that had made the most effort so far this year and had achieved the most. She was moaning as she wasn't included but I think it is completely fair. Nothing to do with academic ability - it was effort and achievement for the individuals.

It also gave me a chance to chat to my girls about how important it is that they do their absolute best when they start next year, if they want to take part in the fun stuff. It really hit home with them, for now at least

There are 450+ in my DS year. The french trip in year 8 was only open to those in the top MFL groups......No chance of that!

The sports exchange to Germany......Letters were given to DC in the organising teachers PE groups first so they claimed all the places. He was in another group so couldn't go on that either.

Water sports in the south of France, skiing in the USA, trip to north Africa.....all unbelievably expensive.......So he couldn't go.

Some DC went on several of these trips but the vast majority missed out on all of them. In such a large year group maybe once a DC has had one trip abroad they should be put at the bottom of the list for the next one.

I would be pissed off about the hard sell. Showing them videos of how wonderful it is, and then putting on the pressure that they have to decide today or they will miss out. And to children too. I wonder how many families said "yes" because they had to make a decision quickly, but will be struggling to pay.

You might be on thin ice though if you complain and then they ask about your DD. "Oh, she doesn't actually want to go, we're just complaining" might make you look a bit unhinged.

I went to a school with a lot of rich children, by the way, and this kind of thing definitely contributed to an "us and them" culture. :(

This is horrible in the two counts that others have said - the cost and the first come first served criteria. Also the whipping up with videos of previous years.

Why on earth do schools do this? Those parents who can afford it will take their kids on nice holidays/out of school activities etc so they don't need the school to organise it.

What on earth happened to a day trip to seaside being the highlight of the school social calender?

Seriously, do Ofsted require this stuff or is there another reason.

sandyballs, wow, I'm amazed that you find trips being allocated on 'who's tried hardest' as fair.

Isn't this a somewhat subjective criteria that's bound to cause tension between children who did/didn't get priority? What if a kid who's tried really hard parents' can't afford it? What about kids who're having a hard time at home but don't seem to be as engaged as other kids, so aren't considered to be trying?

Accessible trips (so that everyone can go on something) and lottery seem the fairest way forward.

Wait untill you get up to year 10 and above, then the cost really esculates.
Year 12 trip is £1365 to the great wall of china, or the netball annual trip to Barbados or the cricket tour, need I go on. Neither of my dd's go as the cost is more than our family holiday but we don't mind.
To be fair many of the children pay the money themselves from savings, my dd always pays for her own summer holiday at £250 when she goes on an activity holiday, non of mine have ever missed out.

Dd's school do this trip too but limit it to year 8.
2 years ago it was undersubscribed so it was open to yr 7 as well.
Cost was £600 for a week- dd went, but we didn't have a family holiday that year, and it was the year ds went on his yr 6 trip.
I was so grateful to the staff who gave up their half term, travelling in a coach to Barcelona with 60 hormonal teens.
Ds is going skiing next year- we have never been skiing, (though dh does) so it's a great opportunity for him.
I suppose the school could do a ballot.

I disagree that those children who go on the trips would be able to afford the trips anyway.

I probably could not afford to pay for dp, dd and I to go on trip. I would happily pay for dd to go on school trip and we go camping in the UK for a summer holiday.

Why should such opportunities only be available to children in private schools? It closes the divide and may keep more children in the state sector. If there is financial hardship and the trip has an academic purpose the school can subsidise.

There should be a lottery for places. Otherwise, it's fine.

This is nothing new . I went to the worst of Comprehensives over 30 years ago and my parents couldn't afford any of the skiing trips. In fact, I double entered two subjects s at O level and CSE and we had to pay a pound a week for the entries over ten weeks as they didn't have the money. Taught me that you need to work hard and get a good job because otherwise life can be pretty damned hard.

As for staff on a jolly, I don't think so. They are marvellous for going. Actually, I think they are marvellous for teaching kids I'm the first place - especially those in subjects that they could earn 2x more if they were not in academia.

I agree with twinklypearls.

There is no way I could afford for the whole family to go to the great wall of China, but I could probably scrape the money together if paying in installments for one DC on a school trip.

I'm really keen for DS1 to go on the school ski trip because I can't afford a ski holiday for the five of us.

And yes, a lottery would be fairer. (Although I bet all the well behaved kids would get picked. )

LynetteScavo, when it's my job and so my capability to pay the mortgage on the line, you are DAMN RIGHT that I'm gonna choose the kid who has been proven to behave themselves within the confines of the school grounds before I'll think about taking them even to the end of the school driveway!!

Unreasonable?!?! Maybe so, but so is someone expecting me to take them abroad when they won't follow instructions in a Science practical. FTR I had to send a student to isolation for exactly that yesterday.

Agree with many posters - the allocation of places may need to be revised and I would agree with the poster who says behaviour should be taken into account. The children are the responsibility of teachers and will be abroad and also ambassadors for their school. I don't agree with the comments about cost being prohibitive - it isn't actually that much money for the sort of trip and activities on offer and a year's notice has been given so that works out at 50.00pcm. If I felt my dc were being disadvantaged over that there are various options even if my budget was on the bone - and I would include taking in laundry and scrubbing floors. It is the the OP's responsibility to provide her children with holiday opportunities not the school. The school has provided an option which doesn't have to be taken up.

I totally disagree with schools getting involved with these types of trips. It's a school not a travel agents. It isnt (or shouldnt be) the business of the school to offer adventure trips. I cant think of any educational reason why they should be offered. If parents want their children to take part in adventure activities then they should be arranging them themselves. I took a look at the PGL website and they offer very similar holidays at very similar prices.