Should I withold fees for Independent School ?

[TillyP]

My DTS's attend an Independent Secondary school and are in Yr11 about to take their GCSE's.
Whenever we attend parent's evening we are told they are doing fine etc etc but their mock exam results were quite poor so now they are predicted low grades.
The whole point of paying for an Independent School is to get a good education so can anyone in a similar situation tell me whether I would be within my rights to withold fees for their last couple of terms?
In any other walk of life, if one receives poor service you are not expected to pay, but with schooling you seem to have to pay up whether or not the school has done a good job!

very sorry about typos..dodgy keyboard and fast typing.

"Dismissed as low achievers" pagwatch? I work very hard to support my lower achieving students. Every bit as hard as I do with the higher achievers. I dismiss no-one.

Thefallen

I have a low achiever who takes more of my attention than my other two thanks.
I was using a phrase that had been used up thread.
I was questioning that attitude.

You are being snippy with the wrong person.

Thanks lemony

I am genuinely questioning how this can happen based on my experience with my three children in different schools.

They all seem to have very regular and honest feedback about work and attainment. It strikes me as weird not to get honest assessment as dcs performing below their ability level seems something schools would wish to avoid.

But I think I have been oddly fortunate and some schools are dodgy about this.
Thanks

Sorry! MArking coursework. Am in a bad mood

Fair enough.
Bad mood trumps most things.

Agree lemony, lots of things go on in schools, particularly indie ones, that you would be very surprised at! there is no reason why the parents should not be able to rely on the school to give up to date and honest feedback to the parent at all times, particularly if they know that the parent is expecting better grades based on the schools previous feedback.

there is such a lot of sanctimonious twaddle spoken about daring to question or blame the school! Of course it is the schools primary responsibility to ensure that the education the child receives paid for or not is reaching that of the Childs potential or expectations of the school/ parent. The parent can only act in partnership with the school if they are kept informed, as the vast majority of the dcs work is done in school and the parent is not party to it.

Fees are a contract between the school and parent to provide a high standard of educafjon and service and if the performance of the child is a shock or suprise to the parent without prior warning, then just like any other service the school should be accountable. If they were held accountable you can bet that there would be no miscommunications then!

LisasCat thank you for your reply which is the best answers to my original question. :)

My original question was kind of hypothetical and I'm not really brave enough to actually withold any fees.
I think I have been too trusting of the school in general and I think I now need to become a 'pushy parent'. I hope its not too late!!

Kez100 kids shouldn't be told they can get an A if its a total impossibility. My point was that most kids can do better if helped and encouraged. Your daughter has proved that if she was predicted E and got D and C. Well done to her!
My nephew was predicted a low grade for maths GCSE and it had the effect of making him want to prove his teacher wrong so he worked like mad and got two grades higher. So, was the teacher wrong in underestimating my nephew's ability or is this a tactic teachers use with some kids?

In answer to your question about predicted grades...

Target grades are set externally, based largely on KS2 results, with a bit of social context thrown in.

Predicted grades are based on what we know about the students when we enter them for the exams. Some of my students have predicted grades lower than their targets because they don't work hard, or have really bad attendance. It is what, based on our current knowledge of all contributing factors, we think they will probably get.

If your nephew really upped his game, then exceeding his predicted grade is not unexpected. And well done him. But it's not a ploy by teachers.

Ours are set target grades using baseline testing at Year 7.

Private school? Perhaps it's different. FFT for us.

My original question was kind of hypothetical and I'm not really brave enough to actually withold any fees.

Am I the only one here thinking that this whole thread has been a bit of a waste of our time then?

I'm sure the grades predicted were based on the school's assumption that you DTSs would work their socks off doing their own independent revision. Is it not the case that it only came to light that this was not actually happening once they had sat their mock exams, and thus only then did it come to light that they weren't at all on track to reach their potential?

Prior to this the school almost certainly predicted grades that your sons are more than capable of achieving providing they keep their half of the bargain and do enough bloody revision?
I sort of mentioned this (worded differently) pages ago.

Anyway, people answer these threads in good faith, assuming that the OP is beng honest and upfront in the original post.

I suspect that you did have every intention of whithholding fees as it is only now, after 5 pages of replies that you've piped up with this comment.

If so, just be honest and say that you would be wrong to withhold fees, and this thread has made you realise it.

If you had no intention of withholding fees, why post a hypothetical/misleading/dishonest question as your original post?

Grrrrrr

"My original question was kind of hypothetical and I'm not really brave enough to actually withold any fees".

Misfitless:I agree with your suspicions. The post which TillyP has said "best answers her original question" is the one which suggests negotiating a "discount" on the final term's fees.

Jajas I have never at any point mentioned that I am expecting my kids to get "perfect grades". My gripe is that the school does not seem to be helping them to achieve their potential. For instance, they just told me last week that they were set the WRONG QUESTION PAPER FOR A GEOGRAPHY COOURSEWORK!!!!!!!!So now they have to repeat it
That is when you start to question what the hell you are paying for?? The same teacher apparently is often up to 1/2 hr late for lessons WHICH I AM PAYING FOR!!!! Therefore why shouldn't I withold fees?????

My original post was a question about whether I was WITHIN MY RIGHTS to withold fees??? Not whether I would actually do it or not!!!
I never said I was actually going to. The thread has been very useful and the 'best answer' was the only one that came from anyone with experience of parents withholding fees. Whereas most other people have just assumed that my kids are lazy and I haven't taken an interest in their education

So if you took your car to the garage and the mechanic didn't turn up or did the wrong work you wouldn't pay therefore if a teacher doesn't turn up or sets the wrong work, why should you pay???? Hypothetically speaking of course.

I apologise if people think the thread has been a waste of time, but perhaps they should read the question properly as I did ask for comment from people in a similar situation and only comment if they actually have some experience of the subject being discussed.

People are just assuming, as usual, that the parent or child must be at fault? although this could be the case of course, it is definitely not always the case. A child does not suddenley not revise/ work for exams, there will always be pointers in class that show the child is not retaining knowledge or is showing signs if laziness.

I think the op meant that none of this slippage was noted or noticed by school and she was not informed before the exams that if her dc did not pull socks up then the grades would be not as expected! Why do people, particularly teachers, assume no responsibility? School is a partnership, not just one way traffic!

With a fee paying school, although of course you cannot guarantee perfe t grades, you should be able to be well informed of any issues or areas that if not addressed will lead to low grades or not fulfilling potential, and if this is not communicated by school, then of course there should be some question about value of fees like any other service

TillyP this is getting ridiculous.
I am one of several who have asked if there have been any indications that the school was not providing a good level of education - and this is the first time that you have bothered to mention incorrect exam questions and teachers turning up late for lessons!

Before I thought you were a bit of a time waster and not 100% honest, now I know you are!
Troll?

Misfitless if you think I'm a timewaster, don't read on!!:)
Sorry if I hadn't directly answered your post before but there have been a lot of posts and I can't directly answer them all!
My kids only told me at the end of last week that they were set a wrong coursework question, not exam question!
After further discussion with them about that teacher they revealed to me that he is often late for lessons. I did not know this when I posted my original question! Its obviously not something the school have told me or that I would have thought I needed to ask about!
Prior to all this, no, there was no indication that they weren't providing a good education.

Far from being a 'troll' (I didn't even know what that meant until last Saturday after reading Caitlin Moran's column in the Sat Times)and a timewaster, my original question was a genuine one and it is also the first question I have ever posted on MN and as such I did not realise (perhaps naively) that I would be in for a lot of personal criticism (I am learning fast though!).
I thought that people in a similar situation would be able to answer the question and it has been answered as most people think I would not be within my rights, therefore I am not going to withold fees. But, had the majority of people told me that I was within my rights and I shouldn't pay, then I might have come to a different conclusion and actually witheld some of the fees. Therefore, the thread has been useful to me and not a waste of my time at all.

Thanks to all who answered my question and I'm very sorry if others feel I've wasted their time. :(
It really was a genuine question!

I probably shouldn't read on but I can't help myself given that I've spent so much time already reading and posting on this thread.

I only mentioned time wsting because earlier on today you suggested said that your original question was only hypothetical and that you wouldn't withhold fees anyway.

Now, though, I can see that you are saying that it was genuine question and if enough MNers had said 'withhold' you would have done just that!

Sorry for mistakenly saying 'exam question' rather than 'coursework question' - but this is a monor point compared to all the discrepencies in this thread.

For example, I and several others have asked if there were any reasons for you to think that the teaching wasn't up to scratch and you gave us nothing to on at all.

This morning however you mention about the wrong coursework question being set. I must point out that you must have known this when you placed your OP on Friday, but inspite of this did not mention it until today.

Here's a genuine question for you - are your DTS's predicted grades lower across the board or just in geography?

Are your DTS's predicted grades similar to their peers'?