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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Should I send my DD to an academic school when she is 'average' ?

41 replies

crunched · 11/03/2011 11:26

I was all set to send my DD3 to the school her brother attends which I believe to be a solid, happy place, when I recieved a call saying she has won a place at the local single-sex, academic,high school. The high school told us she 'snuck' in from the waiting list, on which she was in 15th position.
DD3 is delighted as my eldest daughter went to this school and she has always wanted to follow her.DD1 is more switched on academicaly, she loved the school and did well, but as the girls are so different, I don't want to go on DD1 experiences. I'm not saying DD3 is in any way lacking, she is articulate and creative, just pretty average at the 'three Rs'.
I would really appreciate advice if you or your DD/DS went to a school where they started at the lower ability end. Did it pull up your levels or did it demoralise you?
She is quite keen on sports and music and I don't want these interests to dissolve because she is constantly stressful about keeping up with the others. Equally, I don't want to give her the message I don't believe she can suceed anywhere if she sets her mind to it.

OP posts:

Pagwatch · 11/03/2011 11:36

I wouldn't send my child to a school where she had 'snuck' in.

I know someone has to be at the bottom level of ability in any environment. But I would not chose it for my child iyswim.

Actually dd was offered two places. One was a ' hooray, come join us' offer. The other was ' well....after thinking about it...'
We took the yee- ha school.

Original poster

crunched · 11/03/2011 11:42

Thanks Pag - it was definatly a 'you are very lucky to get this offer' type call. Might just be the admissions department with an unfortunate manner?

OP posts:

Blu · 11/03/2011 11:44

If she's passed the test to get in, and would enjoy the wider environment, then why not? Especially as she may excel in sport and music at that school?

if she hates academic work, has a very uninterested attitude to learning, or is a perfectionist who couldn't cope with others sometimes doing better, then it may not suit - for it's academic or competitive emphasis (if it has one).

How does she feel about the single-sex school?

Don't do her down just because she is not as academically whizzing as her sister - she can't be 'average' if she passed the test, and the oversubscription for an academic selective school will have been huge - someone 15th on the waiting list will be v v close to the last 10 who got in on the forst ist, I bet you. The selective school in our area has a variation of about 3% within the test results that gain admission!

Blu · 11/03/2011 11:49

And don't forget that lots of people use the 'don't put them in if you think they might struggle' line to try and ward off the competition for their own possibly borderline case

tryingtoleave · 11/03/2011 12:00

I went to a selective school and I know some of the girls who were at the lower end felt that they had missed out on opportunities they might have had at other schools - being on the debating team, or stuff like that. Tbh, I'm not sure if they would have been the top anywhere.

As for me, I did badly in the first few years ( I think today I would have been diagnosed with add ) but did really well in the last few years and thrived in the academic environment. I'm so glad I went to that school.

Also, I don't think whether she got in on the waiting list or with the first offers is a predictor of future success. If she is keen to go, I would send her and hopefully her enthusiasm will help her along.

Original poster

crunched · 11/03/2011 12:07

Oh Blu, you have brought tears to my eyes!
You are right I suppose, in saying she must be reasonably bright to have got in at all.
She is a perfectionist and tends to stress about everything from essays to her hair.... I do worry about 'doing her down'because maybe it is me- just feel I can't cope with her inevitable moods when things go wrong, and more things could go wrong-friendships, results,team places- at the High school, than the co-ed (faith-based) school.But if she were my first child and not my third, wouldn't I be up for the challenge and back her all the way?

OP posts:

Original poster

crunched · 11/03/2011 12:11

yes tryingtoleave- she is hugely enthusiastic and maybe, with maturity she will thrive like you did

OP posts:

1234ThumbWar · 11/03/2011 12:15

I was an average child sent to a large comp and was left to rot, I wouldn't think twice about sending my average child to an academic school.

She will rise to the challenge.

busymummy3 · 11/03/2011 12:17

crunched I agree with Blu and your last sentence "but if she were my first child and not my third wouldnt I be up for the challenge and back her all the way " to me speaks volumes. I think she must have done extremely well to be 15th on the list anyway and who is to know how many marks there were between her and the last child who got admitted? I think it is only natural to compare our children but if she is over the moon and always wanted to go there I would let her go. At the end of the day if she does find it hard I am sure that if it is a good school they will be able to reassure her and support her. Good Luck

GrimmaTheNome · 11/03/2011 12:23

If she's hugely enthusiastic to go, let her. If she sees it as being that shes won the place, and its her choice, she'll be motivated to do her best.

What message would it give her if you overrode her choice and sent her to the other school?

Original poster

crunched · 11/03/2011 12:36

Thanks all - I think I worry that the success of those at these so called 'high achieving schools' is down to the type of parents, not the type of children and I'm not sure I can go through all the palaver again. My DSs school is so laid back and friendly.
... and I feel guilty I'm lucky enough to be in a position to choose between two great schools. Like you 1234, I went to the local comp and left to sink or swim, but did it do us any harm?

OP posts:

Blu · 11/03/2011 12:57

Oh, don't cry!

What does SHE want to do?

I would go with that.

crazymum53 · 11/03/2011 13:25

We found research from the Good Schools Guide really helpful. They have a good argument in that girls of average ability tend to do better at single sex schools. Also girls' schools tend to cater better for creative subjects. Try not to compare you 2 dds - most good schools will recognise their differences and nurture their talents.

EllenJane1 · 11/03/2011 13:37

I hate to say it as a socialist who really believes in proper comprehensives without the top creamed off by grammars (and with 3 boys)...but girls do get more opportunities in single sex schools and are more likely to do 'boy' subjects such as physical sciences etc. Boys actually do better in mixed ed generally. The girls' influence is good for them, but girls?

Punkatheart · 11/03/2011 13:48

My daughter went to a single sex academic school for several years. We had a horrible experience and she was very unhappy. We changed school in January and I did cry when she told me 'Mummy, I don't feel stupid any more.' This new school is mixed sex, still good academically but so much more holistic.

However, there are children considered average who really will be improved by being pushed. I think it very insulting to tell you she 'snuck in' - that type of insensitivity (which we had in spades at my DD"s previous school) may give you an indication of their academic snobbery.

I would disagree in part with the research about single sex schools. What is the argument? That they are less distracted? Most girls at my DD's previous school obsessed with boys just the same. My daughter's current school really works on teaching them to have kind and non-toxic relationships with boys - they are not aliens. If you take very academic girls and squeeze 'em - of course the results will be better. Also sorry but my daughter's last school was TERRIBLE with art and creativity. They could choose art OR music at GCSE and the headmistress told me that generally, art was a waste of time. Lucky that Babs Hepworth or any other artist of note went there then!

You know your child best. I understand the dilemma though - it's awful...

Blu · 11/03/2011 13:51

I thought that research has actually disproved the comonly held belief that girls do better in single, boys in mixed sex groups?

But I would expect individual children to have different preferences and responses to that, anyway.

Fennel · 11/03/2011 13:54

The jury is definitely out on the single sex/mixed sex schools better for girls. Various conflicting bits of research on that.

Frankly I expect my dds to be able to cope with boys at school and elsewhere, not have their pretty little heads turned by them.

But that's probably another thread. I would go with the school the dd wants to go to, if she's had a sibling at each she probably has some idea what they're like.

GrimmaTheNome · 11/03/2011 13:54

The last research I read showed girls did tend to do better but the effect was most marked on those more in the middle of the academic spectrum, IIRC.

Which if true suggests could be good for the OPs DD.

startail · 11/03/2011 14:25

I was a bright kid at a large comp. I had a great time and a good education.
My "average" sister got far less attention, worse teachers and worse grades than she should have.

If she understands she'll have to work and is happy with single sex go for it and well done for her for getting in.

(I want my good, but not brilliant DD2 to try for the girls grammar, but I'm not sure she will. Dyslexic DD1 muddles along in her own unique way at the mixed comp, is every bit as bright as DD2, but no way has the written skills necessary to cope at the grammar and anyway she rubs along better with the boys than the girls - purely platonic, it's fashion and boyfriend gossip that drives her mad)

bananashavenobones · 11/03/2011 14:26

There is no question she earned her place there, just by making the waiting list for a selective school. Most people get better as they age, unless they've been over-coached early - which doesn't sound like it here.

Also remember that there isn't much correlation between those who just "snuck" in and the ones who leave at the "tail" end after 5 or 7 years. Consider how pleased no 16 would be if she got the chance.

So imho if she's keen, let her enjoy herself. You'll have to support her so much over the next seven years, why not let her fly as high as she wants to? At least she'll never have to say, "I could have if I'd gone..."

Well done to DD3!

Original poster

crunched · 11/03/2011 15:02

All these opinions have been so gratefully received and noted,cheers for everyones time.

Deadline for the girls school is 5pm on Monday, so this weekend, think I'm going to show this thread to DH - who thinks the academic school is a bit of a colourless hothouse - have a long chat with DD to make sure she knows whichever school she goes too will be lucky to get her, and then have a big glass of and thank my lucky stars I've got her.

Come Monday I'm hoping it will be clear which way to go, thanks in no small way to you.

OP posts:

Dommy · 11/03/2011 16:11

Yes send her definitely she'll be fine I'm sure. Those that sneak in are no less bright than those that just pass or those that pass in the middle somewhere either. She will find her level once she is there and should not be over-stretched. She will of course be good at some things and perhaps less so at others, and if the school's worth it's salt, will improve these areas with her. My friends DD now 16 yrs was in your DDs shoes and her weakest subject - Maths has been so perfected, that now she's about to do her GCSE, she's expecting a good grade. As for the sport and music, they'll encourage this too I'm sure. A really good school usually does. Same friends' DD fits in over 16 hours of extra sport a week (she's at county level in Gymnastics) and still gets the homework done and has time to really have fun with mates at the weekend etc. Yes your DD's different from her sister, but obviously has other recognised talents and got in on her own merits.

If by chance after a term or two your DD does happen to be finding it very hard, it is possible to put her name down for the local school and wait for a place - but much more difficult to go to the local school and await a place at the academic school. Go for it, I think you'll be pleased you did.

Pagwatch · 11/03/2011 16:34

Errrr.

No. Not trying to reduce the competition - just replying honestly about what we did.

But we did factor in hugely what schools our dcs actually liked. I think children get a sense of whether they feel comfortable iyswim.

I would say op that children thrive in all sorts of environments if they have loving support at home. So your dd is pretty well ahead in that regard.

exoticfruits · 11/03/2011 16:56

I would go a lot with what she wants as much as anything.
You can't really know until she gets there.My DC1 came on in leaps and bounds in year 7-he was just a late developer.It depends a lot on whether you think she has reached a peak or whether she has plenty of scope to develop.

VerintheWhite · 11/03/2011 17:39

Would it be worth a chat with a Y7 teacher at the school, maybe with some examples of the work she is doing now?

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