Considering a Catholic School for a Non Catholic child...

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We are considering sending our DD to a Catholic all girls school because it seems to be the best fit for her, however, we are not Catholic or even CofE. Has anyone had any experience of this situation? The school has mostly Catholic girls with a small minority of other religions.

Again and again and again: campaign for a change in the system that requires all faith-based schooling to be independent.

Can you visit the school, speak to the head, try to gauge how well your DD would fit in?

My DD will be going to a joint RC/Anglican secondary school (I'm an Anglican) in September, and I visited the school and was really impressed by its ethos - not afraid to say what it believed, but was also respectful of others. At least, that was my impression.

@happygolucky13 you do realise, I hope, that the land and buildings of catholic schools are owned by the catholic church, that they were initially purchased/built by parishioners and that parishioners still pay 10% (or more ) of the school budget every year no matter how many non Catholics are being educated in catholic schools. If the state were to abolish catholic schools there would be a pretty hefty bill right there to buy the land and buildings and make up the shortfall in funding. Catholics pay taxes. Some of us pay a lot of taxes. And unlike atheists, who can then get their children educated for 'free', we then have to contribute even more to get our children educated.

The only children being educated completely at the tax payers' expense are children who go to non faith state schools. Children who go to faith schools get less from the tax payer than anyone else, but the parents get no tax rebate.

Sardinequeen - sorry but in my experience that's rubbish. The 'Catholic' school I went to didn't bang on about the catholic religion. Not everyone there was catholic and that was back in the 80's. Not everyone practiced or believed or cared. Really there was no real teaching of the 'catholic' religion. There was a few services through the year like most other non catholic schools and a few priests and nuns came to give a few talks.

Thetasigmamum

Wrong I'm afraid. The "parishioners" pay nothing towards the running of the school. The only contribution required is 10% towards any capital projects, for example a new sports hall. All faith schools have their annual costs 100% met by the taxpayer.

And yes, catholics pay taxes like anyone else. Racists also pay taxes and have sincerely held beliefs. Should they get schools for white or black children only at the taxpayers expense? Same for any special interest group.

I wonder what kind of Christian believes that it is fair for the rest of society to provide schools which exclude non-believers? Which exclude even the most needy because they are of the wrong faith? Can't really believe that is something Jesus would have approved of.

However, I can certainly see how a true Christian would believe it a good thing to provide the buildings and facilities to educate anyone who needed it, no matter what their faith. The Christian church which is the biggest, and therefore wealthiest, landowner in the country.

Catholic schools don't exclude non believers.

fastedwina

My local Catholic school does. They can fill it with local "practicing" Catholics (ie they go to Mass for two years before entry), so they do. Every year.

I went to a Catholic secondary school even though I am not a Catholic.

I found it hard to fit in BUT and it is a massive but, I got good grades when I had been failing everything in a non-faith school. The discipline is very good and they have high expectations of the children in the school.

I left that school with a high self esteem, I felt confident about my acedemic and social abilities.

My teachers were brilliant and they invested so much time in me. They were so much more involved than my non-faith school teachers.

So, in short, I found my time in a catholic school difficult but so beneficial.

fastedwina

Is it beyond your ken to understand that every single catholic school in the country may not be exactly the same as the one you went to?

1. The catholic schools around here have enough catholic applicants that they do not need to look further down the criteria. The schools are 100% catholic
2. Your school may not have been big on worship, others are. Your school may not have had all catholic teachers, others do. Your school may not have had an underlying catholic ethic through everything they did, ours do

There are hundreds (thousands?) of cathlic schools in the country, can you honestly not understand that they are not all exactly teh same as the one you went to 30 years ago?

happygolucky you are correct that it is 10% of capital costs not yearly funding but this 10% is £20 million per annum to its schools.
Plus one third of all schools in England have a religious character so unless the tax payer wants to build new schools to replace these existing ones then or pay the market value for the buildings and land they are built on then faith schools are good value.

Plus most parishioners will be asked to pay the catholic school levy, which is a small contribution seperate from any other giving which goes to fund our catholic schools.

canspel

£20m? The annual education budget in the UK is £80 BILLION.

The 4 local catholic schools I know have 100% catholic teaching staff and 100% catholic students. They are big on religion. They are true faith schools in that the faith permeates everything that goes on.

It is not unreasonable to suggest that the OP finds out more about the school, and more about the religion, surely? If she follows the advice of people who say that the religion is hardly noticable and it is a school like the ones near me she is going to be in for one big shock.

£20m is the figure from 3 years ago and just covers cathoilc schools.Not all faith schools are catholic but i dont know any recent figures for non catholic schools but you are welcome to google if you have the time.

The annual budget would have to be a lot more than £80 billon if they had to fund and build 33% more schools.

cantspel

... and the delicious irony of a "Christian" establishment holding the government to ransom by saying that they will only carry on providing education facilities if the rest of us are prepared to pay for all the running costs and 90% of the capital costs AND let the "Christians" select only members of their congregation for these taxpayer funded schools.

How "Christian" is that?

Every school has an admissions policy so in some way selects their pupils. The good non faith schools usually on postcode and it is the parents who can afford to buy within catchment who get the places. Is that fair?

Faith schools dont just select on faith or their wouldn't be 30% of non catholics being educated within catholic schools.

Have you ever asked yourself why so many non cathoilcs want a place at a catholic school?

Maybe we are doing something right and people want the values that most (not all) catholic schools are teaching.

Interesting idea though.

Let's say the government decides that all schools funded by the taxpayer have to be open to all taxpayers, regardless of their faith, and it requires the Churches to either comply or lose their funding.

What does the Church do? Shut all the schools? And do what with the buildings? If the government refuses to buy them, then what? Turn them into lap-dancing clubs?

Or it could turn them into independent, self-funding schools. Now that's the sector where they belong. The Church could sell half of its schools for lap-dancing clubs, and fund the running of the remaining half with the proceeds. And then anyone who really believes that C of E children shouldn't sit next to Catholic children in geography lessons will be able to get their wish at no cost to the taxpayer.

SardineQueen, think you will find that I did say' in my experience' and did tell the poster to visit the school to find out how strong the catholic ethos was. Also in My experience my non catholic friends kids went to a catholic primary and secondary and have no problems - these schools are practically 100 % catholic pupils. My friend also works there. Your post came across very over the top regarding catholics and how religious they are. Many catholics are really catholics in name only and I highly doubt every 'catholic' child at these schools will be signing up to their local nunnery and or priest college. I'm non religious but have noticed that there still seems to be a lot of resentment and bias against catholics in this country - it seems to be an ingrained prejudice that many people don't even know they have. It's no wonder that catholics were made to feel inferior and second class citizens in this country for a long time.

cantspel

As you (almost) admit in your post, people aren't choosing to educate their children at all faith schools. Only the top-performing ones. If faith schools really had the magic ingredient, then why would some of the worst performing schools be faith schools, as well as some of the best performing? Why wouldn't Call Me Dave Cameron be sending his child to the nearest faith school, instead of the best-performing faith school several miles away?

Given the choice between a good local non-faith school and a not so good local faith school, which would most people choose?

What people want is good schools, not faith schools.

"Faith schools dont just select on faith or their wouldn't be 30% of non catholics being educated within catholic schools."

Some faith schools have some "community" places, where a proportion of children are admitted on distance rather than faith.

Some faith schools are 100% on their criteria, with faith at the top, and if there are enough children of teh "right" religion applying, then the school has 100% students of that religion.

In the area I live in, more than 60% of the state primary schools select on faith, most of them have no "community" places. If you are the "wrong" religion or go to the "wrong" church then you are a bit stuffed really. The faith schools in our area are CofE, Catholic and jewish. If you are not of any of those faiths then in some cases you have a real problems.

People need to remember that the situation is different in different parts of the country, and thst different schools have different criteria and ethos. They need to investigate fully what the situaiton is where they live. And not blithely dismiss anything outside of their personal experience as rubbish

fastedwina I am a lapsed catholic, was raised a catholic, went to catholic school etc etc yada yada. Please don't assume that anyone who disagrees with you is not catholic. Assumptions about other people and their lives and experiences are never a good thing.

Basically you have just accused me of being prejudiced against myself, all of my close friends, all of their parents, all of their children, my own mother and grandparents etc etc

Are you absolutely sure that that sounds quite right? Or does it just come easily to dismiss anyone who you don't agree with as being prejudiced?

I can only say what i have chosen. I have 2 boys, the oldest is in a very good special needs secondary school but started his education in a good catholic primary and probably managed to stay there a lot long than if he had been in the local non faith primary. My younger son went to the same primary and then i had a choice of 3 secondary schools.
1 local comp that has just become a academy with a massive cash injection and major rebuild project on going. 5 minutes walk from our home and a lot of his friends go there and are very happy.
2 massive (2500 pupils on 2 seperate ) very good catholic secondary. A short train travel every morning but exam results are outstanding. Modern building and really good facilities.
3 a small catholic secondary (600 pupils with no sixth form) again a short train journey away. The school has not had a head for a year before so no clear leadership but a new head due to start that term. the building is over 50 years old and looks it. The exam results are average but no where near as good as school 2 or even the local all boys school that didn't even make my short list.
The school is still over subscribed even though there is plenty of other choices.

I went for school 3 as it was the best school for my child. Not all parents will choose the school with the best exam results, nearest or newest. A good school shouldn't just be judged on exam results. What people want is good schools that suit their child and faith can be included in that criteria.

Many faith schools are good schools that is why people want them. Are they good because of the faith element, style of teaching, values held? I would say yes but others can make up their own minds.

TBH when i was talking about prejudice it was more the tone of other posters and the many threads I've read on MN which often seems to result in Catholic bashing. I do disagree with you about your view of how strong the beliefs are of many 'catholics' attending catholic schools, 'These people all believe strongly in something. If you don't, it could cause problems.'

Again in my experience this isn't always the case. Many catholics 'lapsed' or not really don't care that much or practise the religion fuuly - but they often do send their children to the nearest catholic (or not nearest) school as many have good reputations and many do it through tradition. They don't all care that much about the catholic teaching their child will get especially at secondary where it seems to be even less prevalent - again in my opinion.

fasted that comment I made was more about the teachers and other staff - in the schools I know the staff are all catholic, and they are all practicing - it is expected. If they are not 100% super-religious then they don't exactly mention it!

I find it quite funny that my point that catholic schools might well be rather religious is being met with outrage by catholics! I mean the headline Faith school is religious is hardly a shocker is it!!!

my sister sends her 3 (non-Catholic) girls to a private Catholic girls school and she is very happy with it. They do not take part in the religious instru ction and they don't attend church at all. Doesn't seem to be a problem for my sister or her family (or the other girls at school) at all. She is very happy with the education and the social environment.

The casual offensiveness of some of these posts is remarkable coming fron people who no doubt see themselves as liberal people with 'reason'. Equating racists with Catholics is offensive but worse, it is a dangerous slippery slope. The good news is there is no prospect that state-funded Catholic schools will be banned
The bigotry implicit in the tone and language (not their basic argument) of some of these posts show the posters to be not as liberal and as tolerant as they believe themselves to be.
Anti Catholicism runs deep in this country and it would seem on mumsnet.