How bright do DCs need to be to get into Grammar school?

[completelydazed]

I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times before so I apologize in advance!

How bright does a child need to be to get a place at a Grammar school and should it be prioritized when deciding where to live?

Reading MN, I get the impression that children have to be either super bright or very well tutored to get in to a Grammar school. If my DCs turn out to be super bright then ok but I'm not sure about having my DCs intensively coached at such an early age. I also worry how they would fare later on if tutoring was the only reason they had been accepted.

My family (DH and two DC's) are currently living in SW London. Changes in my DH's job have opened up the option to move out to the Home counties. We're looking at a number of possible areas; some contain grammar schools and others don't. We're keen to maximize schooling options for our young DCs since we have no idea of their character or aptitude at this age. However, we're also keen not to have to move house for another 10+ years since the whole process of finding a house is incredibly tedious!

If we look at only areas that don't contain Grammar schools, we'd have a much wider range of places to live but be left with only private schools or good state comprehensives. If we look at only areas that contain Grammar schools, we'd reduce our choice of places to live substantially. If our DCs have no chance to get in anyway without heavy tutoring, we'd be back to private schools or comprehensives again.

So how valuable is the Grammar school option when deciding where to live and you have no idea how your DCs will turn out?

I live in Kent and I don't think it is as competitive as other areas.My ds has just passed the 11 plus and isn't one of those who could play chess at the age of 3...but I did do about 9 months worth of work with him.Not necessarily 11 plus prep...more basic maths and english,which I figured would stand him in good stead even if he didn't pass.He didn't have a tutor because I want him to be able to cope when at grammar school....but he now is at level 5 at school.

I think the key before you move would be to make sure there is a good plan b if your child didn't pass.

We're mainly looking for a home in Surrey or Kent since we have a better knowledge of these areas living in SW London. They also fit well in terms of commute time into London.

Areas in Kent such as Sevenoaks and Tunbridge are quite appealing because of the combination of the grammar schools and some very good private schools (as a fallback option). If the grammar system is accepting up to 25% of children in Kent I feel there would be a good chance our DCs get in without having to get them tutored.

In Surrey we would be left with the Tiffin schools (or perhaps we could look at Sutton though we don't really know that area well). The Tiffins would have been the perfect type of school for DH and I but who knows for our DCs (and we're not keen on having them extensively tutored ... their children!). I suppose closer to the time we'd just have to see how it went and perhaps get them a little tutoring.

In Surrey, given the competition for places it just feels like the probability is that we go private. We can afford it but think a state school would probably be a better fit since our family isn't really of the "private school" type ... we just have no class at all!

Comprehensive is an option but my DH's experience has put me off. He went to one and still snarls when he meets a teacher 20 years later! Clearly their must be good ones but in the areas we are looking in pass rates in GCSE seem terrible (sub 50% A-C in some cases). As a foreigner, I don't understand why they do so many pointless subjects and how students can fail such trivial exams.

It sounds like you've got a pretty good grasp of things. Kent would certainly be better than Surrey from the POV of being confident of getting them into a grammar school. Tiffins is supposed to be very good but it would be a hell of a gamble to move there on that basis.

There is also the small group of grammar schools in Sutton - don't know if that might be relevant.

Then there's the fact that things can always change. I don't know how old your kids are, and current policy prohibits more grammar schools being added anywhere. But it's always possible the Kent system will change and go comprehensive.

But be careful - the Tunbridge / Sevenoaks parts of Kent are very different to other areas and it is (I believe) much harder to get a place at a good Grammar there.
(Am quite happy to be contradicted here - I used to live in a differnt part of Kent but knew people who complained about the super competative grammars in west kent).

From experience in order for dc to get into gs in an area where they take the top 25% your dc will need to be working comfortably at least a year above their chronological age so a year 3 pupil should be working to year 4 standards (state schools). For the super selective gs they need to be working comfortably at least 2 years above their chronological age. From what I know of prep schools they set children work which is at least a year above that of state schools

need to be heavily tutored and be good readers(for vocab). Nothing magical/mystical about this. No mater what grammar schools would like to thinkg, their tests can be prepared for and they don't always get the ones with more potential than others.

Lots kids at our state primary get 1 hr tutoring per week & 1 hrs extra homework, for the one year leading up to gs entrance exams in jan. This year 3 out of 60 year 6s got places at grammars. One of them reads nothing but Match comics (outside the books read during literacy, obv), and another had no tutoring at all. So you could deduce from this that massive amounts of tutoring and reading are not necessarily the solution but that raw ability - working to level 5 during year 5, prior to any tutoring, - is probably a good indicator of likelihood of getting in.

But if you move somewhere with 'only' good comprehensives, that would be fine too, surely, as the motivated kids will all be there, instead of at the grammars?