Help DD's option choices have to be in tomorrow and getting nowhere fast

[wangle99]

I think I need an impartial opinion as we are going round in circles and DD and I are getting more stressed by the moment!

DD's current career choices are psychologist/psychiatrist or designer of some sort (interior is the current choice).

She has 3 option choices

She has to do music (she has a music scholarship)
She wants to do a language (has chosen French as she is relatively fluent already - is a language a good choice?)

Which leaves one;

Art or
Psychology

I haven't done university myself so have no idea whether GCSE's subjects are taken into account (or just the grades).

Come on mumsnetters help please!!!

As a university admissions officer we rarely look at GCSE options. What is more important is that she does well in her core subjects - maths, english, science.

My advice would be to let her do what she wants for the others - because then she is likely to do better in them and have more free time for studying for her core modules.

If she specifically wants to do certain A levels then obviously choose those options now.

If she wants to be a psychologist (I am one) then she needs high A level scores think AAB type at least - maths and biology are the ones which would help her most. Some universities actually prefer you not to have psych A level so you are all starting at the same point.

Based on what she wants to do now.... bearing in mind she is still very young so this may change.... Then I'd say if she is very keen on Pyschology it may be worth doing it as it will tell her if she is really interested or not. But assume its as a subject she would be interested in as opposed to being "bankable" And I'm guessing it depends on where she lives but perhaps there are some extra cirriculum art activities she could do to keep her interest in that area. But maybe someone can advise - if she doesn't do Art GCSE can she do Art A level?

DD did want to do history but couldn't seem to fit it in, I personally was against psychology as though perhaps a bit wishy washy and she could always do it later.

The sciences are all separate courses.

The school she is currently in don't do A-levels they do the IB (although I think introducing the English Bacc this year) this is totally new to me as I only understand A-levels (god I feel thick today!)

She could do with just one more choice and we'd be sorted (art, music, history and french lol). I think we'll have a big chat later about (she's just gone off to orchestra for the day music is a big part of her life) and hopefully come up with the final choices but any further advice is still greatfully appreciated.

sorry for hijack but in similar position ...

ds has to do GCSEs (or iGCSEs depending on subject)

Eng lang
Eng lit
Maths
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
Spanish (have to do MFL and he's only doing one so no choice there)

Then at least one humanity - he wants to do
History

So he then has 3 options to choose from

PE
Latin
Art Graphics (not good at pure art)
Philosophy & Ethics
ICT

He def wants to do PE (easy A* for him!),
has been told he'll do brilliantly at Philosophy & Ethics and is now struggling between the other three ...

as he has a solid academic base, does it really matter?

eh, she wanted to History but cant fit it in, but it is on the list of options she can chose from?

Totally confused now OP!

As an aside, I wouldn't recommend anyone taking A level art if they ultimately want to do a fine art/graphics/fashion/other creative subject degree.

Foundation courses are required for degree course entry in these subjects, and the student who is accepted on their A level portfolio alone is a rare exception.

Of course, things might have changed since my day now that the local tech can call itself a university.

IB she needs to do a humanity at GCSE to prepare for the compulsory group 3 although she can choose psychology there. Psychology GCSE however, is pointless IMO. Why can't she fit in history?

You say her school does IB so what will her choices be there?

I'm assuming English A1, French B, Maths (HL for psychology?), Biology? Then possibly psychology group 3?

Does she have to continue music to IB diploma level? If so that takes up her group 6 choice. What is she looking at doing at Higher level and what at Standard?

basildon Your first ten choices look good - cover all the bases, as you say. I think the last choice doesn't really matter, he can choose it for whatever reason appeals to him. Latin has kudos; ICT is a bit meh but everyone has an ICT qualification these days so it might look strange if he hasn't got one; don't know about Art Graphics but does it mean a lot of work (art subjects seem to take up a lot of time).
If he is thinking of applying for a popular course in years to come, then choose the subject that he is going to get the best grade in!

wangle If your DD doesn't know what to do, then chose options which keep doors open for as long as possible. The EBacc does this - the subjects needed are listed here.

Does she have to do the Music GCSE as part of normal timetabling? Is there any chance of doing this as a twilight subject, thus freeing up another choice?
French is good: it ticks one of the EBacc boxes.
It would be nice if she could do History or Geography.
Again, does she have to do an Art GCSE? Can she keep her interest via an out-of-school club and come back to the subject in the sixth form.
I agree that Psychology is not a good idea at GCSE. Save it for sixthform, if that. You do not need psychology A Level for a psychology degree; a few Uni stipulate a science A Level. Horse's mouth here

I'm sorry if some of my posts haven't made the clearest sense I didn't realise until I actually started posting how many gaps in my knowledge of current course requirements I have!

We have enquired about music being separate but there is no option available. DD will not have to continue music after GCSE level as she may well not continue at this school, however our local college does EB as well so still a possibility.

She doesn't have to do Art but we (perhaps naively) presumed that possibly wanting a career in Art it would be a good choice.

And as for IB/EB I don't really know much about that either. It's all so new for me and I didn't even do A levels myself (wasn't seen as necessary by my family

IB is a proper qualification, at sixth form level.
EB (at GCSE level) is not an actual qualification. The Govt league tables assess schools on how their kids perform. It used to be '5 GCSE at grades A-C'. It then became '5 GCSE at grades A-C, and two of those 5 subjects are Eng and Maths'. Their lastest benchmark is 'at grade A*-C we want Eng, Maths, double science, a MFL and either Hist or Geog'. This is rather a large column-header for the tables so they have abbreviated it to 'EBacc'!

EB and EBacc are really bad abbreviations, IMO, as the European Baccalaureate is also abbreviated to EB or European Bacc. The European Baccalaureate has been in existence for about 50 years and is a well-recognised school leaving qualification that British universities know well.

I think history.

Accountancy is a complete waste of an A level. Music on the other hand is highly regarded as a very academic subject chide at both GCSE and A level.

IB is equivalent to A-levels. Students take 6 subjects, typically 3 at Standard level and 3 at Higher. There are 6 groups and students take a subject from each group. Group 1 and 2 are languages, group 3 is essentially humanities/social science, group 4 is experiemental science, group 5 is maths/computer science and group 6 is arts but the arts subject can be replaced by a group 1-5 subject allowing people to take a 3rd language or second science. It is worth, if your DD is going to be doing that, considering the impact that will have on your GCSE choices as it is much broader than A-levels and requires a very solid foundation in a range of skills.

EB is the standard abbreviation for the European Bacc, probably not relevant to you.

EngBacc as has been explained is the new measure introduced at GCSE level in England covering the 'core' subjects.

Although you're making GCSE choices, you have to do this with an on A-levels, and there are some A-levels she won't be able to do unless she has done them at GCSE, such as a language.

The top universities have just confirmed what many of us have always suspected - that they view certain subjects as 'soft', and therefore if anyone applies to university with some/any of these, they are less likely to be offered a place.

From memory, the key subjects that they are interested in are:

maths
sciences
English Literature
history
a language

On that basis, I would definitely advise your DD to include French.

Don't do psychology. It's seen as a soft subject at A-level, and you can go to university to study it without having studied it at school.

Sorry - first line should say 'with an eye on'!

thanks senua and sorry wangle not to come up with any advice for your dd as we're in a similar position

the problem is he doesn't know what he enjoys more - although I think we've narrowed it down to between Latin and ICT

I suspect if you do Psychology GCSE you'd find yourself repeating a lot of stuff at A level as most people wouldn't have done GCSE. If you then did Psychology at university you'd probably repeat quite a lot again. Same for accountancy.

Re Art - surely you need Art A level to get onto a foundation year?

Wangle, I would say that if your daughter is seriously interested in psychology as a career, she should invest a bit of time looking at the BPS website and getting straight in her mind what options are available at postgrad level. If she's thinking of clinical psychology she should be aware as early as possible that this is super-competitive. Some universities get over 1000 applications a year for not much more than 20 places per institution. There is no point in applying with less than a 2.1 unless you have a lot of other things going for you, and many applicants have an MSc and sometimes a Ph.D. as well. It's also necessary to have some relevant work experience (paid work - voluntary work would not be enough).

If you can get onto the Doctorate in Clinical Psychology, you get a salary from the NHS during the three years of the programme, and an excellent chance of a good job when you finish, but getting to that point can take several years during which people usually subsist by taking fairly low-paid jobs, often on 1-year contracts, to get the experience. It's usual to do an MSc on the way too, which of course adds to the debt.

Sorry to sound discouraging, but I deal professionally with a lot of aspiring clinical psychologists and it always amazes me how many of them have got all the way to their final year of undergrad without finding this stuff out!

Ok think we have decided on...

All the core ones obviously as no choice so..

Maths
English Lit
English Lang
All sciences
Possibly IT if made a core subject

And choices

Music
History
French

Your advice has been invaluable as I am so out of the loop with all of this and have never really needed to look at what Universities want. Thank you for the info re: psychologists as well I had no idea it was such a competitive field!

I think a lot of people don't, Wangle! Psychology isn't a vocational degree in the same way as medicine or dentistry or nursing. In those cases the government works with the NHS on setting numbers to be trained so that they bear some relationship to the jobs available when students graduate (I think). Psychology is more like law or accountancy. The first degree gives you a good basic grounding in the subject, but if you want to practise, you need a lot more training in your chosen specialism and there are far more psychology graduates than there are jobs requiring a psychology degree.

The majority of psychology graduates end up in jobs that are not directly linked to their degree studies. This is fine, but it's not necessarily what a lot of them were expecting when they chose the degree subject all those years ago.

Excellent choices, wangle, hope she enjoys them.

Hi wangle, I think your DDs final choices look excellent and will leave doors open.

As a general point, I am an accountant and would say that there in absolutely no need or purpose to studying A level accountancy if you want to be an accountant. However, the double entry bookkeeping I learnt in O'level principles of accounts has stood me in good stead for the last 20 years.

You won't need psychology to do it at A level but you might need art if you want to carry on with that.

However, I would advise her to do either History or Geography and get the EngBacc. You never know by the time she gets to do any university applications, it may well be a pre-requisite.