subjects of death for chosen careers

[Appletrees]

Inspired by the English bacc thread I would like to know subjects would be advised AGAINST for particular careers.

Given that schools are encouraging children to take subjects that will boost league tables A-C results rather than into the unis/training colleges/courses the students actually need.

So I am starting with journalism after a great post from Basildon Bond on the bacc thread.

For journalism, don't take media studies.

Any more?

talkinpeace

"they may have gone in with an accountancy degree
but how did they do in their CCAB exams and afterwards?
they will have had a narrower intellectual base on which to build a business career."

Virtually everyone went on to get the ACA qualification with a big firm - many including me with first time passes. If you know you want to be a chartered accountant (and sad but true - I and most others on the course did) then exemption from a year's worth of exams was worth having. And I would argue that the intellectual base you refer to was not narrow at all - as I said before we studied all sorts alongside the lawyers, economists, statisticians. A large proportion of the people who joined the firm at the same time as me had accountancy degrees - and they were welcomed not frowned upon. Certainly not second best!

As to Oxford it depends on what she wants to study. Is it Medicine? Then maybe not, but if she is from an under-represented school it might be worth a punt. If she is enthusiastic and loves her subject, then it is worth considering Oxford. If she is from a state school then even more so for some colleges, as long as she is bright.

As I was once told, "If someone from a State school has 3 A's then I know they are bright, if they were at a public school they may just have been well taught."

I'm not sure, Exepat, when I applied to Oxford they said they liked to see a string of As at O level. That probably varied with the subject, mine was a non-school subject so they couldn't go on how you were doing in that subject, they liked breadth.

And really, there are the same number of places at Oxbridge as there were, so it can't actually be that much harder to get in.

I feel a bit sorry for them that they mostly seem to get lots of high grades but the grades aren't worth as much cos too many others have them.

about eve- if she looks like getting A's a A-level she should apply anyway.

I am a firm believer in "you'll never know if you never go"

harassed- i think the point is that contrary to what many believe there is no advantage in having an accountancy degree over e.g a history degree when applying to the big accountancy firms (other than the exams exemption).

However, by taking accountancy as a degree you are narrowing your options because if you decided after graduating that you actually wanted to be a lawyer or a banker, the accountancy degree would not be seen in as good a light by law firms or IB's as a more traditional academic subject.

(I am an ACA btw, so definitely not down on accounting)

Only read OP, but absolutely do NOT buy into the snobbery about media studies re: careers in journalism / radio / TV.

If you want to be go to a Russell Group uni, they might hold it against you. Otherwise, if a young person enjoys media Studs and is likely to excel / get a good grade - go for it!

I worked for the BBC for 10 years - in news, sport and music radio - and shit loads of people had Media Studies / Cultural Studies / English & Communication Studies etc degrees.

To be honest, nobody gives a shit what your degree is for most media jobs - they want you to demonstrate work experience in the field and a passion for your area.

It is the one industry I have worked in where nobody (bar perhaps in the very upper echelons of BBC News/Politics) gives a flying fuck if you got a first from Cambridge.

excuse my appalling typing

So, OP, to go back to your original question about which subjects should be advised against for particular careers, given the variety of conflicting opinions on this thread, do you agree that there is no simple answer to this question that everybody can agree on?

And that we therefore need to move away from the idea that there are "subjects of death for chosen careers"?

"It is the one industry I have worked in where nobody (bar perhaps in the very upper echelons of BBC News/Politics) gives a flying fuck if you got a first from Cambridge."

I don't agree about media studies. But there is definitely now a reverse snobbery in the BBC about public school, middle class, cambridge etc, for sure. Any diversity person has a good advantage.

Not sure why you except news and politics there, don't think that exception applies tbh.

I have no experience of broadcast journalism, so what CockneySparra says may well hold true for that, but it is certainly not true for print journalism. You need, as MillyR put it, a knowledge base.

As for the wider question of whether we should be talking in terms of subjects of death at all - well perhaps it is not entirely as black and white as that, but too many young people ARE let down by not having the expectations of their chosen career spelled out to them early enough. I know that the FE college in my town gives appalling advice to pupils who are choosing A-level subjects. They appear to have no contacts with universities, no sense of what the requirements for the most competitive courses are going to be, with the result that pupils who don't have parents with the appropriate experience are left floundering.
That's why threads like this are important.

i've found as long as there is enthusiasm that counts so much more than exams

I think part of the problem, LadyGP, is politics (with a small p). Can you imagine the ruckus in the staff room if the school/college told pupils that Subject A was 'better' than Subject B? They have to carry on the pretence that all things are equal - which is nice for the staff but not very helpful for the pupils.

Agree with LadyGlencora about quality of advice. FE college and sixth forms are not impartial - they have spaces to fill and will often allocate students accordingly without regard to what's best for the student. Thus, I have come across students with the grades for level 3 courses (including A levels) being put on level 2 and even level 1 courses because the level 3 course was full. The other issue is lack of career knowledge among teachers - many attended university 10 or 20 or more years ago and their knowledge and advice is out of date. The situation is likely to get worse as hundreds of professional qualified careers advisers (who provide impartial guidance) are being made redundant across the country.

AE, on parents evening at my son's state school, they put posters up of the previous year's sixth form. Each leaver has a poster with a picture, their current university and a list of their A level and GCSE subjects, grades and other achievements.

Quite a few go to Oxford, and most of the ones that go do not have all A/A* grades at GCSE. One student had a C in both English and English lit.

I have also seen the videos put on Youtube by Cambridge, showing the interview process and how they make the decisions. The admissions tutors were discussing how good they thought a candidate's GCSE results were; in some of her subjects she had a B.

So I'm inclined to think this whole idea that you have to have all A grades at GCSE to have a decent chance of getting in is not rather strange. Are there stats produced on it? There seems to be stats on everything else to do with Oxford.

Best rule, if you don't want to rule out universities/careers etc is to stick to old fashioned academic subjects. Do not do anything vocational(e.g. law, accountancy) or which has the sord "studies" at the end. Psychology and sociology are also viewed as soft options.

There are exceptions to this rule (e.g. if the goal is art school rather than university,when textiles/design/photography etc are fine).

MilyR, I hope it's just scaremongering to say that forget the best uni's unless you have all A* at GCSE. Perhaps it's designed to put people off applying. No-one will get in if they don't apply.

abouteve- If your DD looks likely to get all A's at A-level, and has a good number of A's at GCSE then she should apply. They can only say no, and if they do, so what?

Riven's daughter was accepted and only had 5 GCSE's.

Yes, this is the exception, and MillyR is right about general requirements- they could fill the place with straight A students 4 times over- but someone has to be the exception.

She does want to apply to Oxford but not sure what predicted grades school will give her. She usually pulls it out the bag in the end so will apply on actual results if predictions based on AS aren't good enough. If that makes sense.

Have stumbled across this discussion by chance but am finding it fascinating. I have 15 and 14 year olds who are on track to get good grades in variety of traditional academic subjects. They have supportive family etc.. and my gut feeling is that whatever they choose it'll all be ok in the end. Is this naive?! I reckon in 15 years we'll look back and wonder why choosing the 'right' subjects seemed so stressful.

itsallfine, I wish you were right. Unfortunately, I think you might be being naive.

Twenty years ago, less people went to university and the average A level grades were far lower. Now 35%+ are going to university and AAA grades don't guarantee a good degree course at the best universities.

When you apply for many jobs you then find that you are up against the best graduates from around the global rather than just those from the UK. A postgraduate qualification becomes very important just to differentiate you from the hordes of other applicants.

Both DH and I are part of the interviewing process for graduates for two different multinationals. Both have "points" systems for filtering initial applications. A level subjects/grade, degree subject/classification and university are all ranked as part of that system to eliminate the bulk of applications prior to interview. HR does its best but admit its a pretty arbitrary process but with so many applications, there just isn't any choice. I am a senior lawyer at my multi-national and my application would get binned straight away!

Dont think we have EBacc in this part of town! They introduced Diplomas in these parts 2 years ago - my gut feeling is they may not be worth the paper they're written on, but they're being given a big push. It effectively means that the children do their core subjects, but if they then choose a Diploma, they have no room to do any other optional subjects. It seems to narrow the field to me.

I'm really against early specialism for many of the reasons mentioned on this thread but just wanted to say on the music/music tech front I did a degree in music (music, maths, geog, chem in 6th form) and the only prerequisite was the pure music A-level, plus the performance requirements.. Music tech wasn't accepted by many places unless in conjunction with pure music. Music tech degrees, however, will usually accept either/or.

I wish I'd done a language though, instead of chemistry, although I loved it. Maths and geography were surprisingly useful, more the political geography for ethnomusicology!

I still wonder whether I chose the right A-levels despite enjoying them or the right degree, despite enjoying it. If I'd narrowed the field at GCSE I might have even more regrets. As it is I just wish I'd been able to do the IB.

I think that there is more to getting a uni place than just a broad spectrum of GCSE subjects, top grades at GCSE and A level as you will be competing with so many others with the same qualifications. You need something extra - someting that will make your CV stand out amongst the rest eg head boy/girl, set up a club at school, anything to show leadership/management skills, or any other character strengths, or unusual hobbies etc.

Unfortunately the exams are only a hurdle until you pass them, and then you quickly realise that everyone you compete with for uni place/job etc will also have the same qualifications. One hurdle soon gets replaced by another and another as you work your way up whatever profession you choose! The rewards can of course be great, which is why we all do it!