Independent or grammar school

[MommyG]

If your DS was a bright boy and got into a grammar school, and you wouldnt mind paying fees for a private school, i.e you have got enough backup, which one would you go for - grammaror private and why.

Dont get the impression that I fall into either category .. just wanted to find out, thats all

I don't think universities make lower offers to GS pupils but there are some who might believe a pupil from a GS might have more potential than a pupil from a public school. When my daughter moved from a Grammar to a Private school in the 6th form, she was amazed at the amount of hand holding and input into course work from the teachers, this is not what a good university would necessarily look for in a potential candidate.

They don't make lower offers to Grammar school pupils.

Grammar schools do not have sibling policies, whereas many indies do. Therefore if you would like your dc to attend the same school (and money was no object) you may select an indie.

It is quite common for one child in a family to pass the 11 plus, and another to not.

I don't think selective independent schools have a sibling policy either. It would rather defeat the object of being a selective school!

selective independents definitely don't have a sibling policy.

It totally depends on the school. We wouldn't get our dc into our only local grammar school as it doesn't take the top however many pass the exam, it sets a pass mark then selects in order of being Catholic, attending a Catholic primary, in cathment etc.

However I am not sure I would send them there anyway as it is very pushy academically. I prefer the ethos of the selective independedent school attached to the dc's junior school.

The Catholic grammar used to be private and still has a private prep oddly enough.

Of course, for some of us Grammar is not an option as they were scrapped in our county

Some selective independents are less selective than others and offer a sibling discount on fees.

Our 'local' grammar is too far away - 90 min journey each way at least, so not an option, but if it had been and money really was no object I may well have chosen independent for things like music & other extra curriculars, co-edness and their willingness to accommodate children wanting or needing to do things differently from the rest (take different exams or at different times), and flexibility over year groups too.

Top indies of the type Xenia likes may not have a sibling policy, but there are many semi selective indies that do. ie. schools which are not equipped to take a child with severe SN but would take a sibling if they are at least average.

yes, but that isn't a sibling policy. If they are oversubscribed they will select on ability.

Have not read the whole thread, but I know several people who have opted for indies when they had the choice of a grammar. Why would the face that it is free sway you if you have spare cash (as the OP suggested?) In that case you are lucky enough to be able to choose the school best suited to your child, which may well be the indi for a variety of reasons as they are all different!
In hte cases I know the breadth of learning and extra curricular and sports in the iindies, and in some cases location, made them the choice, because they suited those particular children.

It really does come down to what GS and idependents are available to you. I was a bit suprised by Kangaroos list because it wasn't anything like our experience:

• the 'rough and tumble' of 30 in a class

(my DD is in a class of 28 but the selective independent would have been 25 anyway. )

• bad language heard in the playground

(I can't discern any difference)

• teachers not lunching with the pupils

(er...why would a secondary school child want that )

• less supervision (seem to have an appropriate amount;too much does them no favours at this age)
• lack of individual approach to her dc's behaviour

(having just been to first parents' evening, every teacher was definitely in touch with my DD as an individual - I was impressed)

Its an 'academic' GS but they get plenty of music, drama (every spare moment at present spent rehearsing for pantomimes or musicals) etc.

To echo GrimmaTheNome, it really does depend on what is available to you - and whether sufficient reliable public transport is available to give you a real choice.

As a parent would it be worth packing in your job to do seven years on the school run for instance?

The trouble with thread like this is that people know one grammar school and one independend, and generalize from there.

In my opinion, they isn't enough "rough and tumble" in my dd's class of 28 - they are all very proper young ladies who could do with shaking up a bit!

As always it depends on the school, here we have excellent state comps, state grammars and an independent on every corner.The grammars have cramped dated facilities, they hothouse ( and not even that successfully) and the teaching is dull. I would choose exellent state comp.

If I was to consider independent ( which I woudln't) but if I did I would opt for independent for smaller class sizes and better facilities.

Some areas do have great grammars though.

I have taught in comps, grammars and independents and my job requires me to visit schools of different kinds often,

If I was very rich and would consider independent I would feel uneasy taking a free grammar place when I could pay.

tingletinagle - where do you live (just the region/county). I would love to be somewhere where the secondaries are so good. We have the GS system but as DD is in a state primary I don't know how well she would do against the prep school children.

More than half of the country does not operate the grammar school system.
Grammar is great for those who get in but the worst schools in the country are secondary moderns - the kids have been told they are failures at age 11.
At least in a comp they have the chance of being moved up or down the streams.
Grammars also have comparatively poor value added because the kids are "crammed" so much to get them in.
I just wish Hampshire schools had sixth forms but that is coming

and on language....
The higher the fees the worse the language.
Choice words from friends who went to very famous and expensive schools

Grammar schools are an unmitigated disaster for everone except the minority of children who get into them. And even for them, I'm mot vonvinced that telling a child it's better than its contemporaries at 11 is any more beneficial than telling one it's worse.

Yes - its very odd that people on here enthuse about the grammar school system on the assumption their own children will qualify - in my post antal group lots of people moved to Bucks for the grammars schools, - how did they know their child's potential @ 6 months old?

Guy, yes that's always amused me too; you get quite a few threads on MN where posters assume that if the school fees go too high, they'll "move to a GS area, that'll show 'em!", as if it's a given that an independently educated DC will always get into GS. The big problem with GSs is that, whatever people say, the other nearby schools are NOT comprehensives, they're SMs.

As for sibling preference policy, again, as others have said, it very much depends on the school, doesn't it? A good friend was told this week her Y6 DS2 in a 'selective prep' will be recommended for the linked higher school though he wouldn't have passed the entrance exam they dropped last year, cos DS1 (now Y8) who did pass that exam got in! Harder economic times, anyone?!

And I am also anti-GS, despite having gone to one.

I recall an amusing thing I heard:

'The left wing opposed grammar schools because they entrench privilege. The right wing support grammar schools because they entrench privilege'

But sorry, I know this isn't a pro versus anti-grammar school thread! My only caveat about the OP is the faint possibility that, in future, with the table football the LibCons are playing with our education system, it IS possible that the major league unis will have to make lower offers to state school pupils than to private school ones.

We get dd's 11+ results this afternoon. The local girls grammar happens to suit her completely so if she passes, that's where she'll go.

I know several families whose children have passed but chosen to send private for a number of reasons. Some down to the sporting facilities on offer, others the pastoral care. Don't know anyone who's done it purely on academic level, probably as the grammars round here are very rigorous.

thanks all, for your responses.. very interesting read really.
I happened to speak to a Grammar school teacher recently - she told me, if you have the money go private. It seems kids coming out of privates are usually much more confident than the others, maybe bcos of the extra activities and the grooming in schools. Also, her daughter was a topper in her grammar school, but did not feel challenged at all. In private, depending on your potential, they challenge you accordingly.