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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

A secondary school that randomly allocates foreign languages.

47 replies

VivaLeBeaver · 01/10/2010 11:32

Went to an open day for a secondary school last week, really, really liked this one. We think we'd like DD to go there, good Ofsted, reasonable exam results, teachers seemed enthusiastic, kids showing us round seemed lovely.

But there is one downside, the teacher said that in Yr7 the children are randomly allocated into three groups. One group does Spanish, one German and the other French. There is no choice. Children that are then deemed to show an ability for language are allowed to pick a second language in Yr 8.

DD is passionate about French, they do French and Spanish at primary school and she's not keen on Spanish. French seems to have clicked for her, she's gone to an after scchol French club for 2 years, I speak it fairly fluently and we speak a little French at home. I told the head of languages this and she said I could always email the school just before DD starts are request that she's put in French but they couldn't make any promises as if everyone did this it would be chaos.

It seems silly that this one thing could potentially be a deal breaker for what is otherwise a really good school. If DD wasn't so keen on French I suppose it wouldn't be a problem. But it would be such a shame for her to have to give it up when she doesn't want to.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 01/10/2010 11:33

its random here too..but you can email in a preference which they will consider

Hullygully · 01/10/2010 11:34

Random languages is utterly utterly bizarre.

ForgottenTomato · 01/10/2010 11:38

My MIL works in a school where they do this. They randomly allocate the form teachers a language (which can be anything from French to Japanese) and expect the teachers to teach themselves it so that they can then teach the kids. It's a truly terrible system and in no way encourages enthusiasm from either kids or teachers.

Original poster
VivaLeBeaver · 01/10/2010 11:39

And this school is a modern languages specialist school. It seems a very bad system to me.

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PixieOnaLeaf · 01/10/2010 11:40

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Fennel · 01/10/2010 11:41

Our school did this, but you could, or your parents could, express a preference and go in a particular group. It affected class settings at the start of secondary so that's the time to mention it.

My parents were passionate about us NOT learning Latin so we all went in the German group cos that group learned French second, and the French groups learned German or Latin.

actually though, I've always rather fancied Latin.

MrsBartlet · 01/10/2010 11:41

We dismissed an otherwise excellent comp because of this very reason. They randomly allocated Y7s to French or German. If they were good at it then in Y8 they could do Spanish but would never get the chance to do the other language that they couldn't do in Y7 (if you follow me!)Like your dd, my dd loved (and still loves) French, she had done it in an out of school club for several years and the school in question couldn't guarantee she would ever get to study it.

Dd is now in Y9 at a super-selective and very good at French. She is already seriously considering it as an A'Level option. She may never have had that choice at the other school.

I'd think very carefully about what you do esp if your dd is keen on languages but ultimately I suppose it comes down to what your other options are.

Original poster
VivaLeBeaver · 01/10/2010 11:42

Well yes she could do an after school club but she wouldn't be able to do a GCSE in it. Which when its the one subject she enjoys and is good at and stands a chance of getting an excellent grade is a bit poor.

OP posts:
ForgottenTomato · 01/10/2010 11:44

My secondary school randomly allocated you to french or german. 1A, 1C and 1E got French; 1B, 1D and 1F got German. It wasn't a problem.

If its a languages specialist school, she should have the opportunity to learn two languages (or more). Our local high school is a languages specialist and the kids in the feeders all seem to learn French and Spanish.

MaMoTTaT · 01/10/2010 11:46

oh god I would have hated that! I did French in Middle school - but hated it, really struggled with and it just didn't come easily to me at all.

Had the opportunity to do German when I changed schools and an older friend with a German degree gave me a crash course over the summer holidays - I took to German really rather well (the class I went into had done a whole school year of German - I'd done 6 weeks - and I coped fine).

I would have absolutelyhated being randomly picked to do French. There's no way I would have got a GSCE (well Standard Grade it was in Scotland) in French - never mind a Higher. But I managed it in German.

PaulineCampbellJones · 01/10/2010 11:46

My school allocated random languages too. We then all did Latin and another language aged 14.
The choice I was given actually shaped my life as I went on to do a Spanish degree and beyond!
Can you not ask them to consider adding her to the Spanish group?

PaulineCampbellJones · 01/10/2010 11:48

Sorry I mean French group of course!

Butterbur · 01/10/2010 11:49

DS and DD's schools both do this. Everyone does French, and German or Spanish are allocated randomly. At DS's school, you can't even express a preference, which is a shame, as DS1 badly wanted to do Spanish, and got put in a German class.

Everyone has to do one modern language GCSE,and can choose either of the two they have been studying.

GrungeBlobPrimpants · 01/10/2010 11:55

DD's school does this - it's because they don't have enough MFL staff to cover all classes in all languages. I think that going through secondary and not doing French is crazy, but they don't have enough French teachers they say.

You can send in a preference IF you have a connection to a particular language eg family

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 01/10/2010 11:59

My school did that; four form entry, you were split into classes by alphabetical order of surname and then in Y7 the first class did Spanish, the next one did German and the other two did French. Then in Y8 everyone did Latin for a year, and then in Y9 you could either keep on with Latin or drop Latin and pick up whichever other modern language you wanted to do, but you had to carry on with your first modern language. Then in Y10 you could drop your first modern language if you wanted.

It was annoying, because I would have wanted to do French and Latin but started off in the German group, so in order to pick up French I had to drop Latin.

I can see why they did it, because otherwise almost everyone would have opted for French, but it's not a good way to enthuse the students.

Presumably she would be able to keep up the French out of school and then pick it up "officially" in Y8? And she could almost certainly do French GCSE outside school as an independent candidate -- could be worth discussing that with the leader of her French club, who might be able to point you in the right direction.

Original poster
VivaLeBeaver · 01/10/2010 12:02

Well its not guaranteed she could pick up French in Yr8, only if she's shows ability for the language she does in Yr7. So if she's in the Spanish group and carried on being a dunce at Spanish they'll tell her she's to dim to do French. Plus she'll have to carry on with Spanish, she wouldn't be allowed to drop it.

There's no formal method of expressing a preference, obviously if she does go to this school I will endear myself to the staff before she starts by writing and expressing a strong desire that she be in the French group and the reasons why.

OP posts:
PixieOnaLeaf · 01/10/2010 12:02

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Bonsoir · 01/10/2010 12:03

What a ridiculous system.

Original poster
VivaLeBeaver · 01/10/2010 12:05

But is she likely to be at the same level as the Year 10 French group, if she's been doing one afetr school club and they've been having proepr lessons. Don't know how many lessons per week the proper group would be timetabled for but suspect it would be more than one lesson?

Plus I just don't know how easy she'd find it to do an extra GCSE on top of the ones she'd be doing through school. Unless we just tell her to switch off from Spanish, not bother with the homework, etc so she has more time for French but that's not a very good message to give her.

OP posts:
Fennel · 01/10/2010 12:05

If she's good at French, though, she'll probably find Spanish easy. It's like French with the hard bits taken out Grin

Original poster
VivaLeBeaver · 01/10/2010 12:08

Maybe I'm worrying too much, maybe she will just get on with whatever language she's given. She's been doing French she was 6 though so I just think that she'll never be as good at another language that she starts at an older age.

OP posts:
asdx2 · 01/10/2010 12:15

Dd's school do the same but rotate the groups each term for y7 so that each child experiences three languages.
In y8 the more able choose two languages and the less able one.

ForgottenTomato · 01/10/2010 12:17

But she can continue being good at French. Learning another language isn't going to stop her doing that/being good at it. In fact, it might actually help.

You don't need a GCSE in a language to prove that you're good at it. You can take French at university without an A-level too, so it wouldn't even stop her doing French as part of a degree in the future.

AncientStarlight · 01/10/2010 12:18

Even though the languages are randomly allocated, if you write to them expressing a preference, they should consider it. I did this for DD and they accepted her preferences.

I wouldn't worry too much about starting a language a few years later: I was taught French when I was 8 and German when I was 13, but I found German far easier.

AncientStarlight · 01/10/2010 12:20

Forgotten Tomato, are you sure? I'm doing German at uni, and the language depts all specify A Level in the language as part of the entry requirements.