A secondary school that randomly allocates foreign languages.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Went to an open day for a secondary school last week, really, really liked this one. We think we'd like DD to go there, good Ofsted, reasonable exam results, teachers seemed enthusiastic, kids showing us round seemed lovely.

But there is one downside, the teacher said that in Yr7 the children are randomly allocated into three groups. One group does Spanish, one German and the other French. There is no choice. Children that are then deemed to show an ability for language are allowed to pick a second language in Yr 8.

DD is passionate about French, they do French and Spanish at primary school and she's not keen on Spanish. French seems to have clicked for her, she's gone to an after scchol French club for 2 years, I speak it fairly fluently and we speak a little French at home. I told the head of languages this and she said I could always email the school just before DD starts are request that she's put in French but they couldn't make any promises as if everyone did this it would be chaos.

It seems silly that this one thing could potentially be a deal breaker for what is otherwise a really good school. If DD wasn't so keen on French I suppose it wouldn't be a problem. But it would be such a shame for her to have to give it up when she doesn't want to.

I did French at uni and could have continued on to a single honours degree in it, but I never did higher french.

Glasgow uni do 'beginners' versions of all the languages they offer in first year, and you can go on to normal second year (and beyond) classes if you get a decent enough mark.

at Glasgow www.gla.ac.uk/departments/french/undergraduatestudy/

Pah, I suck.

www.gla.ac.uk/departments/french/undergraduatestudy/

The bit in bold says:
If you have not studied French before, you will be catered for in a class specially designed for beginners and near-beginners with an emphasis on intensive language acquisition. A good performance in the beginners? course allows you to continue with French in second year and potentially on to Honours level.

Viva, I wouldn't worry too much as if she's got a flair she';; do well in Spanish as well. Our school also does the random allocation. My DD had been to French for a while but gave it up becasue they ' did too much colouring in' and not enough real French! She started with French at secondary but picked up German later and is now doing final year ger,man at Cambridge. So as I say, if someone has a flair for languages, its likely to to show up well -especially in another Romance langauge. Its not as though its a toally different family of languages.

But do write to the school in good time or they will already allocated her.

I agree that it is a crackpot system, but I can see why they do it.

Maybe your DD is good at languages rather than just French. So she would probably love and do well learning German and Spanish too.

I wonder if it truly a random allocation. If the school know that she is good at French, surely they would encourage that and secure a GSCE?

Pixie - you could be right that she appears to be struggling in Spanis has hasn't been doing it as long. She's definetly not as interested in it as she is in French but again thats maybe because she now finds French easier as has been doing it longer.

If you like everything else about the school, I'd not worry too much. It's no bad thing to have two languages. She can always keep the French up in other ways - with pen pals and holidays, watching French films etc. I was dreadful at german and hated it, but it was brilliant for learning grammar. I'd never have done so well in English if we hadn't been taught grammar in German lessons. And if she gets allocated Spanish - it's one of the major languages of the world these days - a great skill to have.

Thanks Forgotten Tomato

Agree that Spanish is fair more useful than French. I did French, thought I was good at langauges so took Spanish as well at O Level and was crap at it - didn't click at all.

At my teen's school, they all do French in Y7 - those deemed more able then do German as well in Y8 and the less able do Spanish. So, reinforces the idea of German being "hard". But my eldest had already doen Spanish out of school. Very annoying that that momentum was lost.

Anyway, OP, if she's good at French and enjoys it, she will always be good at French and enjoy it and so can pick it up whenever.

Hmm, I do think it is a bit of a strange system personally, but agree that there does need to be a system of allocation which is not parental preference (otherwise you may have email from nutjob parents 'Courtney is not to study German as they bombed Coventry in the war' or something.

If I were you Viva I would write a email to teh school saying lots of nice things (I love this school blah de blah) and saying that dd would prefer French, beg beg etc)

My school was a bit weird about languages as well. All children did French for two years, then in year 9, the top set switched to German (kept half an hour of French a week). In year 10, they got the option to go back to French or stick with German. It seems a ridiculous system, even now. The children that weren't good at French could well have excelled at German, and those excelling at French were virtually whipped away from it.

Due to the above scenario, I would look at all subjects with options very closely when choosing secondary schools.

I too would write an email, asking for confirmation of this policy and just what you would be able to do if you did send your DD to this school and she ended up with a language option not suited to her.

FWIW the daughter of a good friend of mine started a completely new language when she went to secondary school rather than the one she had started learning at primary because she thought it would be more beneficial to her (and that she might get bored starting from scratch with the rest of the class).

She is now fluent in both and never had a disadvantage from "dropping' her original language in her first year of secondary school.

If you really like the school and your daughter has already shown talent in one language she will most probably excel in another language and who knows? she may even get her first choice after all.

You might very well find that she enjoys german or spanish with a new teacher and different system. Can she not continue to learn french outside of school and do a GCSE privately?

There more languages she learns the better imo.

In dd's school you had to write in and motivate why you wanted to do one language over another. Makes far more sense.

I would have rather that system than what happened to DS. He had to do French and German in Year 7. He has had to do both languages upto year 9. For GCSES he chose german because he needs a language for university and is now finally enjoying it.
Thankfully by the time DD started the school realised it was a mistake to load two languages on year 7s and she just had French. Now in year 8 she has been allocated Italian as well as French, some other classes do german.

When I was in school we just did german and some took french as well for o'level and had no problems getting good o'level passes in only two years of study.

My dc both did French in year 7 (as did everyone) and then Spanish or German was randomly allocated (but you could put in a request) in year 8. One local school alternates French and Spanish according to year group, so if you are the wrong age you have no chance to learn a particular language.

I would aim to keep the french going privately and see what happens with the school. You may find that she takes to another language and wants to do two which would be fantastic. It might even be Spanish, as a different teacher could make all the difference between liking and loathing - similarly if the French teacher is dreary she may not get on well in that group, but with French as a side option, then even if the school language doesn't work out she has a fallback option (with a bit of negotiation).

Also, I do know quite a few children that have done French right from being tiny and then got bored with it by 14 and given up, so that might be another reason to try another language.

They did it at a school I taught French and German at. Very odd I thought. They would take some people's preferences into account, eg if you have grandparents who live in France etc, otherwise it was random 50:50 split between French and German.

No wonder the English are so bad at MFL if this is the way schools sell them languages

It does seem a strange system and in some ways makes me glad that our choices are very nartrow (AS unit and if he doesn;t get it local comp- actually a very good one indeed but just the one to look at).

But plenty of chances to do French GCSE outside so if you feel it's a better school go for it anyway. A lcoal college should be able to chat to you (one I worked at woudl take comp age kids on evening class basis with GCSE if their school head agreed)

I went to a school where you were either give French or German in Yr7, then you could choose to add the one you didnt do or Spanish in year 8.

It is a bizarre system.