Is this normal for a secondary school?

[VivaLeBeaver]

Just been to first open evening tonight, am trying but struggling to look past the 33% GCSE pass rate, so my view of the school may be slightly biased.

I have some concerns over the subjects offered though DH thinks maybe I'm old fashioned and all schools are like this now.

Core subjects in Yrs 10 and 11 are;

Business Studies
Citizenship
English
Maths
Science
Ethics, religion and philosophy
ICT

Then choose 3 options - the only ones in the option list I'd consder to be "academic" are modern languages (only allowed one), geography and history.

Other options are media, photography, art, musinc, hairdressing, sports travel, drama, engineering, public services, health and social care, design and technology.

So if she was to choose hairdressing, etc then the only real subjects she would study would be maths, english and science and I suppose ICT. As far as I'm concerned everthing else is fairly worthless.

One of the teachers in the business school section was telling me how they can do BTECs as they're all coursework based ratehr than having to bother with exams if they don't want to be in the exam set. The media classroom's walls was full of cuttings from Heat magazine and the school has a pretend Travel Agent's.

DD thought the school seemed quite nice and I'm quite depressed.

It seems quite restricted in terms of academics but having said that all of my daughters choices are there and I'm not sure what other academic subjects there are available - assuming it's a small school.

I would be concerned at the lack of triple science - did they say that was a choice for more able students?

Also a pity there isn't a choice for dual linguists but then our school has the choice but it doesn't always run due to numbers.

Don't write of RE and ethics - it's a demanding subject

as for the 33 percent. Well you need to look more at value added because it may be they cohort of children joining are only expected to be capable of that level of attainment anyway, if you know what I mean.

It does get a good value added score - 1027.

I didn't ask about triple science, will email and find out. Thanks.

Sorry, you asked if it is normal. Yes insofar as they do offer more vocational options nowadays. No, in that choices are quite limited for an academic child - especially lack of triple science, dual langage study.

My school offer all those things. It's a comprehensive school. Properly comprehensive. We make sure our students are well advised when it comes to options time. We don't have A* students doing Hair and Beauty. But then we don't have students leaving school with nothing useful to show for it.

Oh - we also do construction

Right, will have to see if the other schools offer a bit better such as dual languages.

Another school that we haven't seen yet but we have got the prospectus for its impossible from how their option blocks are arranged that you can do french, geography and history. Of course DD might not want to but it just seems daft to put options into blocks and ssay you can only choose one from each block.

Are you sure there's no triple Science? We have it, but not as an option. Plus Core and Additional Science, plus BTEC First Diploma/Certificate. All comes under the heading "Science".

Options have to be in blocks for timetabling. They always have been I'm sure. I remember choosing from blocks, and I did O levels!

I don't know if science was triple or not, it just said science. I need to email the school to get more info.

I take it, your lo is just going into yr7?

Any number of things may happen between now and KS4 tbh. What they are offering this year, may be very different in 3 years time. Surely they have only told you what they have offered and are running for the current Yr10 and 11?

Surely, if there is not take up of a particular subject, they won't deem it to be viable?

I think it's highly unlikely that it won't be offered, as it's good practice (ie you pretty much have to) to offer it to students who achieve well in KS3. However, we don't open it to all our students on demand. We would expect all out Triple students to achieve Bs or above, otherwise they would do one of the other pathways.

I guess I went to a grammar school so very academic, latin and greek lessons. Certainly no travel and tourism and hairdressing. I see what you mean though about how in a true comp they would be good for some of the kids.

As for options the world will end before people stop arguing over subject choices not being available for little johnny! We thought we had avoided it with my daughter, everything she wanted slotted in perfectly....until she was sent home and told she needed reserves and there was ABSOLUTELY nothing else she wanted to do! Still she managed to figure two out eventually and all was finally well - as it tends to be.

Sounds normal except I would expect two foreign languages to be offered and three sciences for the academic students.

A wide range of more practical subjects are offered now, often in conjunction with local colleges, so that there are options for every student.

Business studies as a core seems odd to me.

For lots of them!
It's about balance. I do think the best way to assess whether a school is right for your child is not just to look at the overall picture necessarily, but to look at how a child like your child does at the school. If your child is a high achiever, what sort of curriculum does a high achiever follow? It may be 33% GCSE pass rate, but what do the high achievers come away with? We have a 60% A-C A level pass rate, which is pretty low for our area, but we had a student with AAA*A last year. And some who get 2Es, working just as hard really. But there's no denying that the feeling in a school like that is not going to be anything like a grammar. I suppose it's what you're after.

I teach in a true comprehensive. Our core subjects at KS4 resemble the ones in the school you describe, with different science options depending on ability ie. triple for the most able, single award for the more vocational students. I think our options range is wider though: hair and beauty, construction, media studies, art, drama, French, German, Spanish, Polish, Latin, music, history, classical civilisation, geography, travel and tourism. As you can see we cater for all needs! You may find the school has links with other schools to enable students to follow other courses too.

What is wrong with engineering? Don't you value creative study either, what is wrong with drama? Don't you have any idea how many transferrable skills are learnt in drama?
You can easily choose a good range of 9 GCSEs from that list. Assuming science counts as 2 and English lit and lang are 2 you only have 4 left to choose. I'd go for history, drama, french and business studies. Surely that is a broad range, acceptable and useful for real life? I'm not sure how much more useful latin and greek are unless you plan on studying languages in the future.

Latin is, of course, incredibly useful. In fact, I would say equal to drama in terms of transferable skills.
Guess what I teach!

"Don't you have any idea how many transferrable skills are learnt in drama?"

"I'm not sure how much more useful latin and greek are unless you plan on studying languages in the future."

Don't you have any idea how many transferrable skills are learnt in languages?

The only academic subject I see missing is Music.

DDs school is a true comp, and their core list is the same minus the business studies. And No exams for RS or PSEC. Top sets get the choice of triple science + 3 options, otherwise double science + A language and 3 options for the other academic pathways. Stats as an extra in yr10 if maths teacher recommends. Some of the Btecs count as more than one option. Also non- academic pathways with single science.

Our main bugbear with this is the compulsory ICT, when DD would rather have another academic option.

Thanks for the advice, I feel reassured now.

To be honest i would not be reassured. You have a highish CVA at 1027 but a low A* to C level at 33%, presumably without maths and english. To me that says that the school is using BTEC courses to get/ keep the CVA up but not getting a commensurate level of GCSE equivalent passes at C+.

It is quite right that BTEC courses are the most sensible for some students and that they have a place in any school. As another comparison my secondary school with some 1600 students, is also a bog standard comprehensive, gets a CV of 1020+, with 79% A to C and 58% A to C including maths and english. The number of students doing some BTEC courses is roughly 15% of the total number of students but they all do GCSE english and maths and triple science is offered.

I find it surprising that Business Studies is 'core' if that means a compulsory GCSE. At our truly comprehensive school the core is maths, English, either double or triple science and a language. Students can choose to do 2 humanities, or 2 languages, or one or two the technical subjects like graphics, design, Systems, or arts or performing arts. Or music or drama or PE - up to 9 or occasionally 10 subjects.

If your child is academic I'd have some concerns about the framework you describe. But I agree RE, ethics etc is a demanding subject.

ICT at our school is not compulsory as a subject alone. Its available as such but for most students they used IT across the curriculum so it doesn't take up a GCS slot.