Is this normal for a secondary school?

[VivaLeBeaver]

Just been to first open evening tonight, am trying but struggling to look past the 33% GCSE pass rate, so my view of the school may be slightly biased.

I have some concerns over the subjects offered though DH thinks maybe I'm old fashioned and all schools are like this now.

Core subjects in Yrs 10 and 11 are;

Business Studies
Citizenship
English
Maths
Science
Ethics, religion and philosophy
ICT

Then choose 3 options - the only ones in the option list I'd consder to be "academic" are modern languages (only allowed one), geography and history.

Other options are media, photography, art, musinc, hairdressing, sports travel, drama, engineering, public services, health and social care, design and technology.

So if she was to choose hairdressing, etc then the only real subjects she would study would be maths, english and science and I suppose ICT. As far as I'm concerned everthing else is fairly worthless.

One of the teachers in the business school section was telling me how they can do BTECs as they're all coursework based ratehr than having to bother with exams if they don't want to be in the exam set. The media classroom's walls was full of cuttings from Heat magazine and the school has a pretend Travel Agent's.

DD thought the school seemed quite nice and I'm quite depressed.

It would be interesting in full-spectrum comps to see the CVA broken down by outcome, to see how they're doing with a wide spread of aptitudes. So it's great if they're getting people who arrive with very weak achievement up to a handful of good GCSEs, but that doesn't help if in the process they're leaving potential A students to get Bs on the grounds that it's the D/C boundary that matters or they're abandoning low-achieving pupils because they won't get Cs.

There's a school reported on in the Graun that was ignoring C/D boundaries unless the pupils would get both maths and english at C.

I would say that this school is marketing itself towards the less academic students. IS it an inner city school? If your DC is very bright, I would consider other schools.

Sorry, I meant I was reassured about the curriculum subjects, not about the GCSE marks. They do Business Studies as a core subject as thats their speciality. Either GCSE or BTEC depending which stream they're in.

I think that DD is to the higer end ability wise but not right at the top. It is an inner city school, be it a small city.

We're going to be looking at another school next week with a better GCSE pass rate, though still only 46%. Slightly lower Value Added Score but an outstanding Ofsted. I know people who send their kids to this school and they really sing its praises.

Other option is a school that has a 70% GCSE pass rate but we're just out of the catchment and have been told its 50/50 whether we get a place there or not. I suspect we may not take the gamble and may go for the middle school instead.

I'm in an odd situation and I know it wouldn't normally but if we put the middle ranking school down as our second choice we're very unlikely to get it and then I'm worried that she'll only get a place at the first school with the 33% pass rate.

Is the school a specialist Business&Enterprise school ... that may explain the compulsory Bus Studs

With a CVA of 1027 and a C+ rate of 33% the main thing that you know is that the intake of the school is fairly low ability

If your child is able then she will be in a minority ... with a high CVA and a low C+ percentage your child is unlikely to be the school's priority ... If, however she is an average child working at level 4 in Y6 she will be their priority and there will be a lot of work put in to support her gaining C+ grades

You want academic subjects, employers (and universities) want skills ... it looks like the school provides enough academic subjects to fulfil the needs of the able minority whilst having a wide variety of skills based options for the majority

Don't worry - I had the same feeling of impending doom last year when dd was in Year 9 - came on here and wrote a thread moaning about 'crap' school options.

DD's school is a true comp - has GCSE A-C pass rate in the low 40s. However it has a very good value add score - don't dismiss that, that speaks volumes (imo) about the ethos of a school.

I moaned and moaned last year, now though (after some sterling advice on here) I am delighted with the school. Yes, some of the options are BTEC/Dip;oma and fully vocational, however DD was able to choose a wide range of both academic and creative subjects. She is doing 12 GCSEs, and is top set in all which are setted (all except RE and food tech), and all her classes have around a dozen kids in. If your child is academically minded, she won't miss out even if half the school take BTECs.

DD is studying

English Lang
English Lit
Triple Science (she took double as an option, the top set are doing triple in the same time as those who are taking double, they have an extra class after school on Thursday)
Maths
Catering (god I scoffed at that, but DD loves is)
Geography
History
RE
ICT
Art

No language as she is dyslexic and was useless at French.

She is predicted A* - B in all subjects.

It is a scary time and if you are anything like me you are completely demoralised by the thought of a school with such a low pass rate, but don't despair, it is very likely that your DC will do very well at the school.

Also look at the pastoral care - this is something my dd's school excels at. Has really excellent teachers who genuinely care. Have a chat with some of them to see what they are like, that may help your judgement,

You should be able to put the school you really want at the top of your list when you apply. If you don't get it then your chances of getting the second choice school should not be reduced just because you listed it second.

For the last few years the rules have been that schools are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of your rankings on the application form, so you will be offered a place at your highest ranking school that can accomodate you based on their catchment / oversubscription rules.

"For the last few years the rules have been that schools are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of your rankings on the application form, so you will be offered a place at your highest ranking school that can accomodate you based on their catchment / oversubscription rules."

This should be tattooed in letters of fire on applicants. If I had a fiver for every time I've tried to explain that it's OK to put down the "may not get in but you'd like to" school first, because it has no effect on the "more likely to get in but less keen" school at number two so doesn't make it any more likely you'd end up as the "definitely would get in but don't want to" school at number three, I'd be rich. If I had a tenner for the "ah, they may say that, but I know a woman at the school gate whose sister says that her mum says..." response, I'd be even richer.

It's a standard problem for daughters in my postcode. There are state grammars, then a girls' not-very-comp which is highly regarded but we're the last street to get in most years, then there's a very good (in my view better than the girls' school) mixed comp that we're very close to and therefore certain to get into. A lot of parents don't enter their children for the grammars on the grounds they think it will impact on their chances of getting into the girls' comp. Some go so far as to put their children down for girls' comp, state grammar, mixed comp, in that order, which is deranged ("sorry, darling, you passed the exam that we've tutored you for since you were three, but you're not going there, because we're too stupid to fill in forms properly") although I think in the end they permitted themselves to be told. Oh, and neighbours put down "grammer, mixed comp, girls' comp" which is simply a waste of ink.

Dd's school specialises in technology, which means you have to do one tech subject for your GCSE. Annoying for dd who is physically disabled with poor joint control, but very academic. Still hoping she will get to do food tech; she can't mess that up, surely?

But more importantly, the teaching is generally good, and she is with other children who on the whole enjoy learning. It makes for a better experience. We're happy.

Our situation is a bit different as the middle ranking comp has a feeder primary which DD doesn't go to. But if we decide not to risk the top ranking school then we need to move DD to a different primary so she's in the catchment for the middle school. But that will give us no chance of goign to tthe top ranking school as then not only will we be out of catchment but also not at the feeder school for the top ranking comp (her current primary is the feeder for this school). Its bloody complicated!

dc's school is science and technology as well. When we first looked at it in 2006 the school didn't offer triple science but now DS is in year 10 he is taking triple science (core subject for top set)
Only those that entered on an aptitude for technology have to take a compulsory technology subject. DS is taking electronics/engineering. It is a comp but gets 89% a-c gcse, and a 60% including maths and english and is one of the most improved comps in the country.

Are there really still areas with defined feeder primaries which dictate catchment, rather than home addresses? That's unusual, I think.

Definate feeder schools round here. But some secondary schools have both and prioritise catchment over feeder schools. Others prioritise feeder schools over catchment, there's no consistency. Then there's the grammar, then there's the school that gives each primary school a minimum of 2 places but the kids that live nearest to the secondary school from that primary get those places. Its a bit of a mess really.

There is one school in our area which still has feeder schools. When DS joined primary his school was feeder, but it changed that year.

I think I would be looking into another aspect as well as subject choice. Low-ish absolute score and high-ish CVA score must surely mean that the school has a very challenging intake. This can bring all sorts of problems with it and I'd try to get more of a feel for the atmosphere of the school, quality of the teachers etc. and try to talk to parents of students who are there now?

Obviously also schools with disadvantaged intake can be good schools but it's just that much harder for them.

Hi,

I would share your concern as the pass rate is an indicator of academic levels and could be related more importantly to discipline. My daughter went to a non selective school who managed to get pass rates in the 80's..the children did not come from advantaged areas but the parents were motivated to assist their children. The school had outstanding teachers and the very average to low achieving children all studied and loved Classics. The head teacher monitored teaching, regularly sitting in on classes. The school attracted good teachers who were able to keep the children motivated. Discipline in Year7 was enforced and as a result there was excellent behaviour in the school and it allowed those children who want to learn to do so.I would be checking out discipline at the school - perhaps drop in on a school day, you will get a real feel for what it's like.

Ask how the top 30 kids in the year group did.
Any school can get excellent averages by selecting out the lower groups at intake.
VA of 1027 is amazing.
Many selectives have VA of under 1000
because they take in bright kids and tread water with them....

Don't undersetimate the rigour of some of the non-academic subjects either. My dd is doing Expressive Arts, and my traditional brais wrote it off as a 'doss'. Then I saw the notes she is expected to produce after every lesson, the level of planning and teamwork needed, the self-motivation...

I think that in terms of brain training and study and life skills it is going to be her most useful subject!

Tokyonambu, I had this EXACT conversation with my sister yesterday.

She has a DS in Y5 so will be going through the process this time next year. She didn't realise that the secondary schools do NOT know where they are on your preference list and I had to explain the Equal Preference system in great detail.

For some reason (inaccurate playground gossip I assume) she thought that because they are slightly out-of-catchment for the school she really wants, she was going to seriously consider putting another banker school 1st to 'make sure' he gets a half decent school.

She also has the complicated grammar school situation to consider (just as you described) but her DS is probably not going to try for the grammar because they all want him to go to the comp.

I can understand why people get confused though!

So OP are you a few years away from applying and hoping to move primaries in order to play the catchment shool game?

Be aware that catchments and catchment rules can change year on year. We were lucky in that last year a new-ish school changed their catchment rules which enabled us to get DS1 in, but then again another (our first choice) had a much bigger intake so we missed out when the previous year would have got a space.

Am hoping that we'll be OK on the sibling rule for DS2 next year then can relax a bit until we have to choose GCSEs...

We're one year away from applying. I suppose that moving DD back to the primary school in our village could be "playing the catchment game". But its not like we're thinking of moving her to a school 5 miles away from home. She used to go to this primary school and would have still been there if it hadn't been so crap.

We have feeder schools here - and it's very very strict to get into our local high school (my then 3 year old didn't make it as we were slightly out of catchment for feeder schools). We travel 5 miles to primary school - which will get us into the next nearest high school.

It wasn't a problem until a few years ago as local high school would take pupils on distance grounds (which came below feeder, and after that catchment area); but now everyone is taking their children out of our local primary as they are desperate for a high school for their children. We were advised by the authorities not to send our child there, so we didn't.

I did speak to the education department and they were quite adamant that this was always the system they had (although no-one seems to have realised it, until no-one could attend local school no longer)...and that they had no plans to change it.