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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Wood burners - will the SNP and Greens please finally ban them?

165 replies

Turtlesgottaturtle · 10/05/2026 13:39

In my view banning wood-burning stoves should be seen as an urgent priority for the new Scottish government. I don't know why people have to have the right to cause serious everyday pollution to their neighbours, simply to produce heat in their living room, when other options are available and already installed in their homes. Where I live there's almost always a smell of smoke and there's often a thick smog. Smoke gets into other people's houses even if they never open a window - for example if your windows and doors let in any air at all, which they do. Often, if you step outside your front door it's like standing next to a bonfire, and smoke immediately gets into your house through the briefly opened door. You can't use your garden if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, unless you're happy to breathe in smoke.

I'll link to an article on the incredibly high level of pollution produced by these wood-burning stoves:
"Even a modern, approved, “eco-friendly” wood burner produces 750 times as many fine particulates as a heavy goods vehicle. - These poisons can affect every organ in the body. Tiny particles pass straight through your lungs into the bloodstream. Wherever they lodge they cause harm. They’re associated with a wide range of cancers, heart and lung disease, strokes, dementia and the loss of intelligence. They age your skin and damage your liver. They harm foetuses in the womb and children’s development."

Things have moved on since he wrote that article. Wood-burning stoves are not now restricted to the upper middle classes. I live in a working-class area and I'd say that every second house has one of these stoves. We have plenty of cheap wood in Scotland. Some people use their wood burner all day and half the night. And it's getting worse, quickly. No thought seems to be given to the fact that this affects not just the house owners but also the neighbours.

I think wood burners have become an obsession for a lot of people, so politicians won't act. Of course, the NHS won't remotely be able to cope with the impact.

Burning Shame – George Monbiot

Burning Shame

Woodburning stoves are a beguiling but disastrous mistake.

https://www.monbiot.com/2023/01/12/burning-shame/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Mrspatmoresapprentice · 10/05/2026 17:37

The costs to install and run an air source heat pump are steep. Better if you use with PV panels but they come at a cost too. And electric only heating is extortionate. For a lot of people, in this cost of living crisis, this isn’t a “pretending to be middle class” thing. It’s a “the only way I can keep warm” thing.

ThatsthelasttimeIplaythetartforyouJerry · 10/05/2026 17:39

Just stand as an Independent at your next local election on this one issue OP if the Greens won’t.

Turtlesgottaturtle · 10/05/2026 17:40

Noras · 10/05/2026 17:18

I think that they should tackle those people stilll burning wet wood or using open stoves before coming after those using modern stoves with dry wood. I know people still doing the above.

Also where does it end? We should then ban paraffin candles ( most scented candles sold on shops) which are really toxic and really serve no purpose. We should ban all barbecues especially in parks / or at the beach where people expect fresh air, we should ban all petrol cars ( including vintage ones).

I don't know why they take cigarette smoke so seriously when they don't care about wood burners. If things are very dangerous, and especially if they're dangerous to other people, then I think there should be restrictions, yes. Would you be happy for your child's primary school teacher to chain smoke in lessons? And yes, using candles all the time because they look pretty isn't the best idea. Here's some research from Denmark, where they use a lot of cozy candles:
Our homes are filled with soot nanoparticles from candle flames

Our homes are filled with soot nanoparticles from candle flames

Cozy candles and sizzling pans make Danish homes as polluted as a typical Beijing apartment, new study finds.

https://www.sciencenordic.com/chemistry-denmark-environment/our-homes-are-filled-with-soot-nanoparticles-from-candle-flames/1390377#:~:text=Danish%20scientists%20have%20now%20shown%20that%20soot%20from,so%20tiny%20that%20they%20can%20penetrate%20lung%20tissue.

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 10/05/2026 17:41

Atree · 10/05/2026 17:32

Now, be fair, until I read the OP's suggestion of wearing warm clothes and getting good bedding, I hadn't even considered those as options. Up until now I'd been wandering around the house in a short sleeve t-shirt and sleeping under only a bedsheet while lamenting how cold I felt. Who knew there were other clothing options during cold snaps?

I don't think any of our neighbours know either, based on the amount of discussions we have had about wood, oil and Calor gas prices recently. I will add a notice to the Co-op window with this life changing news as a priority.

Best cycle around your village, with a hand cranked megaphone bellowing 'wear a jumper!' in order to truly inform the populace.

Turtlesgottaturtle · 10/05/2026 17:43

Waitwhat23 · 10/05/2026 17:41

Best cycle around your village, with a hand cranked megaphone bellowing 'wear a jumper!' in order to truly inform the populace.

I think rugged Highlanders probably know about wool jumpers, but lots of people in the UK seem to have missed the memo. As a woman, you really have to search out warm jumpers, and how many people wear thermals rather than just turning the heating up? I often hear people around me complaining about the cold weather, when I personally feel nice and warm. It's largely to do with clothes.

OP posts:
ThatsthelasttimeIplaythetartforyouJerry · 10/05/2026 17:44

Best cycle around your village, with a hand cranked megaphone bellowing 'wear a jumper!' in order to truly inform the populace.

Also announce on the megaphone not to wear coats indoors or they won’t feel the benefit.

Waitwhat23 · 10/05/2026 17:49

ThatsthelasttimeIplaythetartforyouJerry · 10/05/2026 17:44

Best cycle around your village, with a hand cranked megaphone bellowing 'wear a jumper!' in order to truly inform the populace.

Also announce on the megaphone not to wear coats indoors or they won’t feel the benefit.

Add in 'shut doors and use draft excluders or it will be chilly!'

IsTheAmethystReal · 10/05/2026 17:50

I live rurally. When the power goes down, which it does regularly with any passing storm, the log burner is all we have for heat

Yep. Same. With overhead power cables it happens regularly in the winter.
Longest we went without electricity was 11 days, the storm had brought so many cables down. Consequently we need woodburning stoves.

IsTheAmethystReal · 10/05/2026 17:54

That doesn’t change the fact that wood-burning stoves are less efficient than gas boilers, and churn out vastly more particulate and smoke pollution

Log burners generate heat when you have no gas supply

Turtlesgottaturtle · 10/05/2026 17:54

IsTheAmethystReal · 10/05/2026 17:50

I live rurally. When the power goes down, which it does regularly with any passing storm, the log burner is all we have for heat

Yep. Same. With overhead power cables it happens regularly in the winter.
Longest we went without electricity was 11 days, the storm had brought so many cables down. Consequently we need woodburning stoves.

As I've said a million times on this thread, the government could ban wood burners in places that are not very rural and subject to frequent power cuts and leave the rest. That would solve most of the problem.

OP posts:
Turtlesgottaturtle · 10/05/2026 17:54

IsTheAmethystReal · 10/05/2026 17:54

That doesn’t change the fact that wood-burning stoves are less efficient than gas boilers, and churn out vastly more particulate and smoke pollution

Log burners generate heat when you have no gas supply

I've already covered this concern several times on this thread.

OP posts:
Turtlesgottaturtle · 10/05/2026 17:58

I get that people really like their wood burners. That's why we have an enormous problem. Insulting the person who actually says it out loud doesn't solve the problem.
There's loads on this online. The health effects are real. I've just read an article which says that these burners cause an extra 40,000 deaths a year in Europe, but the article was a few years old, so I imagine it's considerably worse by now.

Just to remind you of the health effects and then I have to go offline:

"Even a modern, approved, “eco-friendly” wood burner produces 750 times as many fine particulates as a heavy goods vehicle. - These poisons can affect every organ in the body. Tiny particles pass straight through your lungs into the bloodstream. Wherever they lodge they cause harm. They’re associated with a wide range of cancers, heart and lung disease, strokes, dementia and the loss of intelligence. They age your skin and damage your liver. They harm foetuses in the womb and children’s development."

Revealed: air pollution may be damaging 'every organ in the body'

Exclusive: Comprehensive analysis finds harm from head to toe, including dementia, heart and lung disease, fertility problems and reduced intelligence

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/may/17/air-pollution-may-be-damaging-every-organ-and-cell-in-the-body-finds-global-review

OP posts:
SirChenjins · 10/05/2026 18:05

And so other than banning them completely - what's your solution @Turtlesgottaturtle ?

IsTheAmethystReal · 10/05/2026 18:06

Wood burners are a recent phenomenon

My house had woodburning stoves when I moved in 40 years ago.

stargirl1701 · 10/05/2026 18:07

We get frequent power cuts in rural Perthshire. How do we maintain heat in the house? Some cuts are short but there are others lasting a few days. It’s gets bloody cold after 48 hours.

Ilovemyshed · 10/05/2026 18:12

Sod off OP. My logburner is a lifesaver in my rural location.

Ban them in towns by all means.

OneAmberGoose · 10/05/2026 18:12

Another Mumsnet virtue signaller 🙄

Cismyfatarse · 10/05/2026 18:13

And where they are recent, they have replaced open fires which often burned coal. So much better than that.

IsTheAmethystReal · 10/05/2026 18:20

Now, be fair, until I read the OP's suggestion of wearing warm clothes and getting good bedding, I hadn't even considered those as options

No. It's life changing. Who knew?

WerewolfOfLoudon · 10/05/2026 18:21

Turtlesgottaturtle · 10/05/2026 17:09

It would be policed by the fact that it would be illegal for installers to make the installations, and people could be reported for having the burners (they're not exactly invisible - a big black pipe sticks up out of the roof and smelly smoke belches out of it). Who knows, even nice people might decide to report on the basis that they would prefer their children not to die of cancer or themselves to get dementia for the sake of their neighbour's choice of heating. I think it's absolutely insane that we have the science and yet people are allowed to do this.

YABU to think the SNP or the Greens are capable of understanding even the most basic scientific facts.

They won't be banning wood burners. They are too busy spaffing millions of tax payers money to keep men in women's spaces.

Notmyreality · 10/05/2026 18:30

OP is increasingly sounding unhinged.

HouseOfGoldandBones · 10/05/2026 18:41

I hope so. We have 2 log burners & they're very popular. If new burners are banned, demand for homes with them already installed will soar.

LovelyCrocus · 10/05/2026 19:21

I think it’s a brilliant idea OP.

It would be easy in towns & cities as the power cables there are underground so it’s really rare to get power cuts. No need to have a back-up heating system because the first rarely, if ever, fails.

Obviously it’s a bit trickier in rural areas where poor lines are above ground and so power cuts frequently happen in the winter when you need heating the most. Plus there are health implications to living in cold houses. And unheated homes in rural areas are MUCH colder than unheated homes in cities because they aren’t surrounded by buildings which work like a sort of giant local area storage heater.

Scientific research makes clear that cold homes are harmful for their occupants and sometimes even deadly, too. There's a higher risk of stroke, respiratory infection and falls or other injuries due to people's reduced strength and dexterity in low temperatures. Cold homes can have both short and long-term consequences for a person's health, wellbeing and even their opportunities in life.

The spores released by mould fungi irritate people's lungs and can exacerbate conditions such as asthma. One nine-year study showed that living in damp and mouldy conditions for long periods is significantly related to a decline in lung function, for example: how much air people can expel in one second of breathing out.
Children living in damp, mouldy houses have an increased risk of respiratory infections. This has worried public health experts given that some children's immunity might already be impaired as a result of the pandemic lockdowns.
Even the very youngest children are at risk. Ian Sinha, a consultant respiratory paediatrician, treats babies born preterm at Alder Hey Hospital in Liverpool, UK. Some of these babies require mechanical ventilation and are sent home with oxygen supplies on their original due date so long as they are ready to leave hospital.

The consequences can be fatal. A 2011 report from University College London's (UCL) Institute of Health Equity, known as the Marmot review, estimated that 21.5% of excess winter deaths in the UK were attributable to cold homes.

There is little doubt that cold homes can kill but they can also simply worsen people's overall health and affect their quality of life. One US study, published in 2019, found an association between colder weather and a rise in dementia-related hospitalisations.

^https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20221107-energy-crisis-how-living-in-a-cold-home-affects-your-health^

OK, the focus of that article is fuel poverty rather than power cuts but lack of heating is the same result. So we can’t ban wood burners and let rural folk freeze to death or clog up the hospitals when they get ill during an extended power cut. We need a better plan.

It wouldn’t be realistic to expect elderly people to carry bedding to a village hall and sleep on the floor each time the power goes out. I doubt many could manage the walk and I don’t think it would be easy for many to get up from a floor mattress. Plus, floors are cold so they’ll likely get ill from sleeping on a temporary bed anyway.

What we could do is encourage them to move into a building which is always kept warm, not a care home but more of a communal living house. They could be given a bed, food and kept warm. It could also be somewhere that people in fuel poverty move into. Obviously this would cost money and they can’t get it for free because otherwise they’d be better off than those living in their own home. So people living in the communal house could do some work in exchange for board and lodging.

It would be both a house and a place of work. A work house, I suppose, you could call, it. For the elderly, the poor and the infirm.

Thats what you had in mind, isn’t it OP? Give people who can’t afford extortionate electricity prices or who live in areas where the power goes out regularly a choice, freeze to death or go to the workhouse.

At least that way they won’t be lighting those dreadful wood burners.

🙄

https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/16832/1/16832.pdf

Dunderheided · 10/05/2026 19:39

Genuine Q, perhaps a daft one: are the smokeless fuel logs just as bad for the environment?

I actually agree with the OP - everyone loves the aesthetic and the way that fire genuinely appeals to something primal in us - also they cost a lot to install - which is why so many people are in denial about the fact that there seems to be solid evidence that they are harmful to human health. And it’s not just the air outside - the rooms with stoves in them experience pollution levels that shoot up while in use.

That said, I grew up in a very rural part of England with an open coal fire in my house. It never seemed detrimental! But in densely populated areas, I think it is one of those things where we should be restraining our individual liberties for the sake of the common good.

FunnyOrca · 10/05/2026 21:00

Turtlesgottaturtle · 10/05/2026 15:58

I've tried it for a few days in cold mid-winter when my boiler broke down and I had no electric oil-filled radiator (which I subsequently bought). Lots of good quality blankets, snuggling up with family if you've got them, etc. Light isn't a big issue for a few days - emergency battery lamps and candles. All of that is easily affordable if you can afford a wood burner. I also have a small flame stove which can be used to heat up food in an emergency.

If we use this argument to justify everyone, including in our towns and cities, having a wood burner and using it all day every day then we are truly fucked healthwise. Is that what you want for Scotland's children? They will be the worst affected, growing up with this. We need to do an intelligent comparison of risks. Just because you can't see the effect of smoke on people doesn't mean it's not happening, day after day.

I’m with you OP. I know several people buying new build houses in the central belt sea of ever extending suburbs. These houses are not in the kind of location that get cut off for days on end. During the last big storm in Jan 2025, we lost power in big city for almost two minutes! Just long enough to reset the microwave clock. I’m aware more rural areas suffer much worse in these cases but nobody near me needs a wood burner as back up. New build houses in the sprawling suburbs of Glasgow and Edinburgh do not need wood burners. I would support a ban on wood burners in new builds in urban areas as a starting point. I think certain rural areas will always depend on burning raw material as a back up but policy should be designed to promote and subsidise eco friendlier options as their day-to-day heat source .

I was speaking to someone who was saying how lovely to was for her baby and dog to curl up together in front of the wood burner of a winter’s evening. I but my tongue but all I could think was how awful for that wee baby’s poor lungs!

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