Wood burners - will the SNP and Greens please finally ban them?

[Turtlesgottaturtle]

In my view banning wood-burning stoves should be seen as an urgent priority for the new Scottish government. I don't know why people have to have the right to cause serious everyday pollution to their neighbours, simply to produce heat in their living room, when other options are available and already installed in their homes. Where I live there's almost always a smell of smoke and there's often a thick smog. Smoke gets into other people's houses even if they never open a window - for example if your windows and doors let in any air at all, which they do. Often, if you step outside your front door it's like standing next to a bonfire, and smoke immediately gets into your house through the briefly opened door. You can't use your garden if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, unless you're happy to breathe in smoke.

I'll link to an article on the incredibly high level of pollution produced by these wood-burning stoves:
"Even a modern, approved, “eco-friendly” wood burner produces 750 times as many fine particulates as a heavy goods vehicle. - These poisons can affect every organ in the body. Tiny particles pass straight through your lungs into the bloodstream. Wherever they lodge they cause harm. They’re associated with a wide range of cancers, heart and lung disease, strokes, dementia and the loss of intelligence. They age your skin and damage your liver. They harm foetuses in the womb and children’s development."

Things have moved on since he wrote that article. Wood-burning stoves are not now restricted to the upper middle classes. I live in a working-class area and I'd say that every second house has one of these stoves. We have plenty of cheap wood in Scotland. Some people use their wood burner all day and half the night. And it's getting worse, quickly. No thought seems to be given to the fact that this affects not just the house owners but also the neighbours.

I think wood burners have become an obsession for a lot of people, so politicians won't act. Of course, the NHS won't remotely be able to cope with the impact.

Burning Shame – George Monbiot

No, they should not! Do you have any idea how people in villages and towns will heat their homes when the snow cuts them off the grid ?

For those of us who do not have mains gas because we live rurally, this is just another heat pump/'just use public transport!!'/parking charges bright spark idea which is suggested and implemented by those who live in cities and big towns and have no idea of rural living.

But if the power is down, the gas boiler, which requires electricity, doesn't work, so it's irrelevant which is better, because there is no choice.

One works, one doesn't. 🙄

Yeah, I live in a small town where everyone has installed woodburners. It's miserable. People have no clue how bad it is for you.

yep same for me!

I live in a Grade 1 listed, off-grid Jacobean house. How do you suggest we heat it, OP?

In one power cut, (6 days) I came home to find DH and the kids cooking pork chops over an open fire. We were mid renovations and put in a wood burner and gas cooker. Vital in rural Scotland.

I agree with you in the main, OP, the data is unequivocal that they are terrible for health - not only for those that use them, but for neighbours as well, which is clearly not on.

However, I think there does need to be some exceptions made in some cases, in current circumstances, such as those living so rurally that they're not on mains gas.

It would be relatively simple to designate wood-burning free zones, including small towns such as yours, where nobody needs them, while keeping truly rural areas outside of the zones so that nobody is without a means to heat their homes.

In the medium term, though, given the health harms, I would like to see more done to give those living rurally more options that are practical, so they can be phased out altogether.

I'm exactly the same, Lincolnshire. Oil central heating only gets us to about 15C. We have frequent lengthy power cuts when my multi fuel stove is the only source of heat or hot water.

I hate it, it's filthy and time consuming and I have zero romantic attachment to my stove but posts like these from city dwellers don't recognise that there are parts of the UK that actually need solid fuel.

As I've said, the writer of that article got into wood burners a while ago when they were used by upper middle class people (and were a status symbol, I'd say, although the writer was doing it for misjudged environmental reasons). They are now used by everyone, not for environmental reasons. I live in a working class area and a huge number of my neighbours' working class type houses have them. No doubt for some people it's a cost-based decision (though it does require quite a large upfront expenditure), but I think that for many it's something they've aspired to and they see it as a nice luxury and possibly a keeping up with the Joneses rather than a need. We have no issues with getting gas and electricity where I am and we're not in a particularly cold part of the country either (in the context of Scotland, obviously).

But what do you suggest they use OP?

Little point in the vast expense of installing gas mains since we are all supposed to be switching to heat pumps. But few can actually afford to convert to a heat pump.

So what is your answer OP, instead of just grumbling and criticising people?

Indeed, but that’s not the point I was addressing. Incidentally, I have lived in a few places in rural Scotland, either with storage heaters or oil-fired central heating, which both require electricity. Power cuts were rare, and a Calor gas fire was useful when they did happen.

I'm not a purist - I'd be perfectly happy for the Government to keep them legal in very rural places / places where there are no decent alternatives. I agree with this post by @BunfightBetty :

I agree with you in the main, OP, the data is unequivocal that they are terrible for health - not only for those that use them, but for neighbours as well, which is clearly not on.
However, I think there does need to be some exceptions made in some cases, in current circumstances, such as those living so rurally that they're not on mains gas.
It would be relatively simple to designate wood-burning free zones, including small towns such as yours, where nobody needs them, while keeping truly rural areas outside of the zones so that nobody is without a means to heat their homes.
In the medium term, though, given the health harms, I would like to see more done to give those living rurally more options that are practical, so they can be phased out altogether.

I agree @Turtlesgottaturtle. My neighbourhood frequently stinks of burning when it's cold. It means I can't open windows (to ventilate) or my whole house stinks. And I don't live in some rural idyl, just a normal suburban area.

See this excellent post by Bunfightbetty. Let's focus on areas which really don't need wood burners:

I agree with you in the main, OP, the data is unequivocal that they are terrible for health - not only for those that use them, but for neighbours as well, which is clearly not on.
However, I think there does need to be some exceptions made in some cases, in current circumstances, such as those living so rurally that they're not on mains gas.
It would be relatively simple to designate wood-burning free zones, including small towns such as yours, where nobody needs them, while keeping truly rural areas outside of the zones so that nobody is without a means to heat their homes.
In the medium term, though, given the health harms, I would like to see more done to give those living rurally more options that are practical, so they can be phased out altogether.

Let’s ban barbecues and vaping too then

My neighbour is still using his wood burner now, in May.

Yes of all the issues facing this country good to see you’ve managed to cut through all the noise to identify the top priority.

I have neighbours who are retired or work from home and use their wood burners all day and into the early hours of the morning. That is not the equivalent of occasional barbecues or vaping. The only time I can open a window or door without risking smoke is in the middle of the night.

That still doesn't address the issue of all those people with no heat when the power goes down. How many oldies will die of cold in the first bad winter ?

I understand smoke free zones in cities where the power is supplied underground, they make perfect sense, but for anywhere the power comes in on poles or pylons, it's unworkable.

Quite. The heat pumps which we are told will need to be installed cost a fair bit of initial expenditure, even taking into account grants from the SG. A cost many people simply can't afford.

I am slightly amused at the repeated references to 'so rural' by some pp's who I can only assume are thinking of tiny crofts, high up in the Highlands. I can see Edinburgh across the hills from my house, yet our village has no mains gas.

I'd rather they ban fire pits. Our neighbour uses his every weekend. And we live in an old house so it's impossible to keep out the smoke as we have old windows. And my washing stinks.

Wood burning stoves at least send the smoke up higher than the houses!

Wood burners are a recent phenomenon and about half the non-city-dwelling population don't have them even now. Is that a public health emergency? Do those people need to install wood burners to avoid the risk of dying of cold? How often do our towns and large villages lose gas and electricity for long periods of time)?

Oh! I feel for you. It's usually only when it's actually cold where I am.

Can't hang washing out or it stinks. Can't open windows. We have gas so there is no real need for a wood fire.

I've had plenty of opportunity to observe that very often the smoke ends up at ground level. My cat often comes inside stinking of smoke. By all means ban fire pits too, but wood burners really aren't so different.