Page 6 | SNP lay their stall out - vote for them next May, they will start negotiating to separate.

RandomGeocache · 2025-10-11T16:15:43+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgknlj3vr76o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgknlj3vr76o]] Because they have learned nothing from Brexit. I mean, it's sort of their raison d'etre, banging on about independence and it does resonate with some of their fans who believe that should Scotland separate, we'd all be loads richer. They do appear somewhat confused though - a majority in parliament is a mandate, the biggest number of MSPs is a mandate, a vote for "pro-indy" parties is a mandate.... Anyone would think they were either making it up as they go along, or hedging their bets. Are we supposed to forget all about the incompetence, the failing NHS and education, the scandals and all the other fuck ups? So if you don't want to separate, don't vote SNP or Green in May.

ThatAgileCoralBird · 17/10/2025 16:43

Mark Carney is the prime minister of Canada not president.
Maybe you are getting muddled up with its neighbour.

RobG · 17/10/2025 18:11

CrimsonStoat · 17/10/2025 13:44

This is absolute nonsense.

I've never understood Scots who prefer to stay in the union but slag off their country as if it had nothing going for it.

I'd quite like the UK to continue, but not in its current form. I can also grasp that Scotland has a lot of assets, and contributes its fair share to the UK.

I can also see that the EU would be happy to have Scotland as it would any small country in Western Europe. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason for it not to be started on the process if it were independent. That doesn't mean I want it to.

Westminster doesn't serve any of the countries well, so I'd rather energies were focused on changing that. But if politicians continue to bury their heads in the sand, it wouldn't surprise me if Scotland eventually voted to leave.

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"I'd quite like the UK to continue, but not in its current form. I can also grasp that Scotland has a lot of assets, and contributes its fair share to the UK."

It doesnt. Scotland subsidises the entire UK.

RobG · 17/10/2025 18:12

ThatAgileCoralBird · 17/10/2025 16:43

Mark Carney is the prime minister of Canada not president.
Maybe you are getting muddled up with its neighbour.

Mark carney runs the Country.

Thank you for your contribution. It has proved invaluable to the conversation.

RobG · 17/10/2025 18:16

SprayWhiteDung · 17/10/2025 09:46

No, I agree with you on that. I think that declaring ourselves to be a democratic country when our head of state cannot be elected or voted out - and even if somebody was desperate enough to assassinate the head of state (which I am 100% not suggesting or condoning of course), we would still end up with their son or daughter as the new HoS - is deceitful in the extreme.

However, in amongst all of what you rightly highlight, we do have some democratic process - which I personally am very much in favour of, as I abhor the alternative.

Maybe you feel differently? Maybe you would have preferred every adult in Scotland, or in NI, or in Gloucestershire, or on my own street to be randomly given 10 votes each whilst everybody else just gets 1 vote?

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If the Scottish vote 62% to remain and they were ignored, then you dont have a democracy merely the appearance of it.

RobG · 17/10/2025 18:18

CatchingtheCat · 17/10/2025 09:11

Another member of the Iranian National Guard seems to have joined us

"Us"? 🤣

Do you mean Scotland, Wales or N. Ireland?

Everyone else appears to be leaving the British in England, not joining them.

CrimsonStoat · 17/10/2025 18:23

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Bigpinksweater · 17/10/2025 18:33

RobG · 17/10/2025 18:11

"I'd quite like the UK to continue, but not in its current form. I can also grasp that Scotland has a lot of assets, and contributes its fair share to the UK."

It doesnt. Scotland subsidises the entire UK.

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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gers-stats-show-higher-public-spending-for-scotland-as-part-of-uk#:~:text=In%202023%2D24%2C%20%C2%A388.5,9.1%20per%20cent%20of%20spending.

In 2023-24, £88.5 billion in tax receipts was raised in Scotland through devolved and reserved taxation, with £111 billion in public spending for Scotland. That works out to 8.1 per cent of UK revenue and 9.1 per cent of spending.

GERS stats show higher public spending for Scotland as part of UK

The annual Government Expenditure and Revenue report underlines the collective economic strength of the UK, says Scotland Office Minister Kirsty McNeill

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gers-stats-show-higher-public-spending-for-scotland-as-part-of-uk#:~:text=In%202023%2D24%2C%20%C2%A388.5,9.1%20per%20cent%20of%20spending.

RobG · 17/10/2025 18:53

Bigpinksweater · 17/10/2025 18:33

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gers-stats-show-higher-public-spending-for-scotland-as-part-of-uk#:~:text=In%202023%2D24%2C%20%C2%A388.5,9.1%20per%20cent%20of%20spending.

In 2023-24, £88.5 billion in tax receipts was raised in Scotland through devolved and reserved taxation, with £111 billion in public spending for Scotland. That works out to 8.1 per cent of UK revenue and 9.1 per cent of spending.

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GERS figures? Really? lol 🤣

CrimsonStoat · 17/10/2025 19:06

RobG · 17/10/2025 18:53

GERS figures? Really? lol 🤣

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I don't know what is to be gained by your suprior and antagonistic attitude to be honest.

GERS is pretty much all there is to go on. It may be skewed but it's hard to tell with the information available to us.

Although more than one commentator has pointed out that some of it is guesstimates, and starts with the assumption that Scotland, Wales and NI don't pay their way.

My opinion on GERS is that it's a starting point that most likely contains bias.

So it's neither the holy grail, nor completely wrong.

It's in everybody's interests (I mean ordinary folk, not government) to read around GERS and understand its flaws, and its potential for improvement.

RobG · 17/10/2025 19:52

I see they refer to it as 'Uk' not 'Scottish' 😉

"The UK's largest untapped oil field has been approved for development by regulators
It's estimated that Rosebank, 80 miles west of Shetland, could produce 300 million barrels of oil - but opponents say those could account for 200 million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions
The UK government has welcomed the decision, saying it will raise billions of pounds and "make us more secure against tyrants like Putin"

BBC Scottish Oilfield ROSEBANK 300 Million Barrels

Rosebank: Biggest untapped UK oil field approved by regulators

The UK government says the field will provide energy security and billions of pounds - but opponents call it "environmental vandalism".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66933804

Bigpinksweater · 17/10/2025 19:54

RobG · 17/10/2025 19:52

I see they refer to it as 'Uk' not 'Scottish' 😉

"The UK's largest untapped oil field has been approved for development by regulators
It's estimated that Rosebank, 80 miles west of Shetland, could produce 300 million barrels of oil - but opponents say those could account for 200 million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions
The UK government has welcomed the decision, saying it will raise billions of pounds and "make us more secure against tyrants like Putin"

BBC Scottish Oilfield ROSEBANK 300 Million Barrels

So?

RobG · 17/10/2025 19:54

CrimsonStoat · 17/10/2025 19:06

I don't know what is to be gained by your suprior and antagonistic attitude to be honest.

GERS is pretty much all there is to go on. It may be skewed but it's hard to tell with the information available to us.

Although more than one commentator has pointed out that some of it is guesstimates, and starts with the assumption that Scotland, Wales and NI don't pay their way.

My opinion on GERS is that it's a starting point that most likely contains bias.

So it's neither the holy grail, nor completely wrong.

It's in everybody's interests (I mean ordinary folk, not government) to read around GERS and understand its flaws, and its potential for improvement.

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Okay, point taken.

GERS are an absolute fairytale. They are there to make the Uk's books look like Scotland is being subsidised by the UK.

The reverse is true. Scotland pays the Uk's bills and its oil underwrites Englands pound Sterling.

Why are they trying to stop the Scottish from leaving? its not because they like or respect that country.

Scotland is the richest country in W. Europe. Respectfully.

RobG · 17/10/2025 19:55

Bigpinksweater · 17/10/2025 19:54

So?

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🤣

Scotland can buy and sell England many times over.

Is that clear enough for you?

Original poster

RandomGeocache · 17/10/2025 20:16

Oh it’s clear.

it’s just total nonsense.

OP posts:

Bigpinksweater · 17/10/2025 20:17

RobG · 17/10/2025 19:55

🤣

Scotland can buy and sell England many times over.

Is that clear enough for you?

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Then go ahead, treat us! It’ll be a relief to turn tables and not have to be responsible for everyone else for a change. We look forward to our life of luxury and no university fees.

Homephonea · 17/10/2025 21:41

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RobG · 17/10/2025 22:41

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Calling me names?

Of course. Have a nice evening! 🤣

You have no idea about how strong a Scottish currency will be, -stronger than the pound Sterling.

You name-calling, name caller, you. 🤣

RobG · 17/10/2025 22:48

Bigpinksweater · 17/10/2025 20:17

Then go ahead, treat us! It’ll be a relief to turn tables and not have to be responsible for everyone else for a change. We look forward to our life of luxury and no university fees.

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Are you an English person posting?

English tax payers dont pay for anything in Scotland, the Scottish pay for England and the wider UK.

300 years in a Union with them and the racism against Scottish people is very very regrettable.

You pay university fees in England because your government in England charges you all for that. Not the Scottish.
You have fees because you accept that from your own elected people.

When Scotland leaves the UK you wont have any free tuition for exactly the same reasons you dont now.

But by all means, act like you are a victim if thats what you would like to do. No one in Scotland is taking anything from you.

Have a nice night.

RobG · 17/10/2025 22:50

RandomGeocache · 17/10/2025 20:16

Oh it’s clear.

it’s just total nonsense.

Not what I have been posting, -no. 😊

SprayWhiteDung · 18/10/2025 00:22

Yolo12345 · 17/10/2025 10:10

i do believe in democracy and the UK is generally fine and has loads of good points. I love many things about the UK and grew up with a dual identity - British and Scottish. However, the last couple of decades have been very disappointing politically, with Brexit really being the final straw.

I’ve no idea what you are referring to when you say perhaps I think people in your street should have 10 votes…? You just need to look at this thread to see what happens when there’s a mild discussion about a differing opinion on constitutional affairs - ridicule, shaming, putting words in others mouths. If this is the calibre of debate then no wonder people are drawn to another indyref.

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I'm sorry if it came across that I was ridiculing you or putting words into your mouth - that really wasn't my intention at all.

It was a rhetorical question based on the suggestion that, in a UK-wide one-vote-per-adult referendum, those who voted in the minority were being 'ignored'. How else could you change this, so that the minority get their way over the majority, unless you happily overturn democracy and/or give more weight to the decisions of any one section of the electorate over the rest?

I've lived in a safe Tory seat for over 20 years, meaning that my vote - being in the minority amongst the applicable electorate - never changes anything. This doesn't mean that I've been 'ignored' though; just that what the majority choose wins.

I can see how this could differ if it were a PR scenario, but how can the UK choosing whether to stay in or leave the EU, or Scotland choosing whether to stay in or leave the UK, be a spectrum? It's one of two clear choices and, as democracy naturally dictates, the choice that the majority want is the one that happens.

SprayWhiteDung · 18/10/2025 00:37

RobG · 17/10/2025 12:27

I come back to what I said before; Why give the Scottish a vote if they are then ignored.

Scotland is a country, London is a CITY! I cant believe you used that comparison! lol

The Uk is NOT a democracy.

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As I've already clearly stated, I agree that the UK is not an overall democracy; BUT we do nevertheless have a lot of democratically-run processes.

In 2014, the majority of Scots voted to stay in the UK. Then, after that, the UK - thus still including Scotland - was given a say on staying in or leaving the EU, and the majority of the UK voted to leave the EU.

As with most referenda, it was one person, one vote. Even if it had been done on a home nation basis - which would have meant that a person in NI would have effectively had 24 votes to each English person's 1 vote - it would still have been 2 voting to stay and 2 voting to leave.

Are you equally annoyed that NI was 'ignored' in their majority choice not winning? Are you happy that Wales was not 'ignored', as they did get the result that the majority of their people voted for?

You have to accept that, if you decide to stay in a 'club', you have to follow the same rules as the rest of the people in the 'club' and you don't get special treatment. If you don't want to do that, then as soon as you have the opportunity, you leave the 'club'. I don't see how this is controversial in any way.

RobG · 18/10/2025 02:34

SprayWhiteDung · 18/10/2025 00:37

As I've already clearly stated, I agree that the UK is not an overall democracy; BUT we do nevertheless have a lot of democratically-run processes.

In 2014, the majority of Scots voted to stay in the UK. Then, after that, the UK - thus still including Scotland - was given a say on staying in or leaving the EU, and the majority of the UK voted to leave the EU.

As with most referenda, it was one person, one vote. Even if it had been done on a home nation basis - which would have meant that a person in NI would have effectively had 24 votes to each English person's 1 vote - it would still have been 2 voting to stay and 2 voting to leave.

Are you equally annoyed that NI was 'ignored' in their majority choice not winning? Are you happy that Wales was not 'ignored', as they did get the result that the majority of their people voted for?

You have to accept that, if you decide to stay in a 'club', you have to follow the same rules as the rest of the people in the 'club' and you don't get special treatment. If you don't want to do that, then as soon as you have the opportunity, you leave the 'club'. I don't see how this is controversial in any way.

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The Uk isnt a demoracy.

It either is, or is not. Democracy is not a grey scale.

The Uk only has the 'theatre' or machinations of democracy.

What you have said in your above post is really little more than moving the goalposts. Respectfully.

I want democracy for N. Ireland too, but that part of the Uk is not at all the same as Scotlands situation. Neither is it Wales.

In 2014 the Scottish were conned into remaining in the uk, then in 2016 England chained Scotland to itself and drove both nations off of an economic cliff.

Scotland voted 62% to remain in the EU, and it was ignored.

There is no case whatsoever for the Scots to remain in the Uk and thats why they are leaving and the English Parliament is now telling them they are 'not allowed'

This last point I am making comes back to a denial of democracy so that Englands Parliament can steal as much oil and gas money as they possibly can from the Scottish before they finally escape. Its a reprehensible course of action against Scotland.

Look up EGL 2. Its all about asset stripping Scotland and its truly appalling.

RobG · 18/10/2025 02:51

Homephonea · 13/10/2025 09:13

Ladies, we have RobG to mansplain on here. He must be right. He’s angry afterall, and thinks the Barnett formula is nonsense and Scotland funds the rest of the UK.

Talk to an economist RobG love, you’re embarrassing yourself! Perhaps when you’ve educated yourself well let you join back in.

😂

RobG · 18/10/2025 02:57

ThatAgileCoralBird · 17/10/2025 15:41

Interesting post @CrimsonStoat
yes I do think those that want the union to continue can fall into the trap of appearing to be continually slagging off Scotland.

The nationalist movement driven by the SNP has really pushed the ‘wha’s like us’ and Scottish exceptionalism.

I feel since Nicola Sturgeon took over leadership and continues today with John swinney everything has to be the opposite or is better than the rest of the U.K.:
Covid measures, harder in Scotland,: net zero targets and electric car sales to be reached earlier than the rest of U.K., free prescriptions, free higher education, baby boxes…
if you dared question the reasoning or effectiveness of any SNP ideas and laws then you were/are not a true Scot, you are not valid.

we are told not to compare ourselves with others as a measure of our success in life, so why do nationalists continually compare. This is often misleading as we are not comparing the same conditions, parameters or baselines; I think the nationalists do this on purpose to obfuscate.
in independent Scotland there is no room for questions, no debate, no differing opinions.

Media analysis and criticism have been lacking on all the actions of the SNP and their government
and were used by lazy journalists and commentators as a good easy way to challenge and berate what was going on in Westminster.

The Uk is a failed state.

It is embarrassing how bad things in the Uk are.

Bigpinksweater · 18/10/2025 07:59

RobG · 18/10/2025 02:57

The Uk is a failed state.

It is embarrassing how bad things in the Uk are.

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I mean Scotland is much worse than the rest. Highest drug problems, worst performing schools, worst health and life expectancy of citizens, biggest individual debt.

I feel for you, the SNP have been like clowns running across a minefield.