Primary to Secondary transition Scotland - levels?

[museumum]

Just had our first information from secondary school for our new S1. They are apparently working at level 3.1 in all subjects except for English where they're at 2.2.
That's totally fine, I am not a tiger mom or anything, except that at primary in p6 and p7 we were consistently told that they were exceeding in all aspects of English. They read voraciously and have a very broad vocabulary, no issues with any aspect of English and were reported to be excelling across the board.

Was the p7 teacher just too easy to please? was our primary maybe a bit behind the others in the catchment? or has our DC somehow missed the mark with the work they've been doing in the first weeks of secondary? What do you reckon is most likely? I'm not worried at all, but I do feel a bit misled by the gushing primary reports.

Ive never heard of those types of levels and have had 2 kids go through secondary school in Scotland. What do the numbers actually mean?

It’s the CfE levels - most kids should complete first level in P2-P4, Second (P5-P7), Third/Fourth (S1-S3). So to still be working in second level in s1 is below average. Not a problem as I say but primary led us to believe he was well above average in English.

edit: didn’t mean to quote myself. Oops

Not something I have heard of either. Had a Google and seems 2 is p5/6/7 and 3 is s1-3. This is an archive document and not one I’ve ever seen.

I would also be interested OP, especially with what you say.

I think I would ask for clarification on that.

https://www.scottisharchives.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Brief-Guide-2-curriculum-levels.pdf.

Cross post. You are really fair and engaged in your post. It could also be a teaching style, what five weeks in, mark all at that until gauge level. It’s soon for that type of report.

We used to get those sorts of reports but not with the numbers after the decimal point. So level 1, 2, 3. AFAIK it's the 5-14 curriculum thingy. We were never told levels as 1.1 or 2.3 or whatever, are you interpreting it as 2.3 is P7 level and 3.1 is S1 level?

I think these levels are all pretty woolly and vague anyway, what is average for one school isn't for another. Also, the teachers have only known your child a month At S1/S2 level I was always more interested in the effort and behaviour marks - are they trying hard and not being a little shit? Leave the grades for S3/4 and further.

My child is in S1. I've not heard of this type of numbered grading with decimal points.
I think you should speak to the teacher to find out more specific information about your child's learning and ability.

There’s no parents evening till March but there will be another report in December. I think I will ask dc regularly about English and check on any homework till December then see if I need to try to contact the teacher.

So the curriculum is split into levels. nursery- p1 is early, p2-p4 first, p5-7 is second. Each level is split into three 2.1 is second level one ie p5 the first part of second level. 2.2 would be p6 second level part two etc.
secondary schools historically re asses on entertain.

@dollygray2 you seem to understand this. What would you think of you had a 2.2 reported at start of S1 for a child always reported as excelling in p6 and p7? Has something gone wrong in transition I should worry about?

We never had them split down into 2.1, 2.2 etc. instead of just early, 1, 2, 3. I wonder if it specific to your local authority as I can’t see it in education Scotland stuff either. It would certainly be helpful if ours had broken it down like that!

When you say ‘they’ do you mean your child or the whole class? The class will be working across a range of levels, but it may be that some teachers have found that children come in from different primaries with gaps in their learning. These gaps will be different from different schools so it they may think it helpful to spend the first term recapping over earlier work to ensure there isn’t stuff that has been missed.

Not overly surprised to be doing revision at the start of S1. If it’s your child specifically that would be more of an alarm bell. If it’s the whole class my guess would be elements of 2.2 as revision. Trying to gauge where children are at with their learning can take a while. I tried to say earlier that they reassess a lot when they start (dont know where entertain came from in my post lol). So they could be plugging some gaps before getting going with third level. Children come from multiple schools with a range of experiences.
If it’s your child specifically, then it might be worth a wee phone call to the school. Some parents get themselves worked up and dont come across as their usual selves! My advice would be to phone relevant pastoral/ depute. Unlikely to speak to them there and then as they will be in class/meetings. Leave a message with the secretary explaining this so the person you are calling can investigate and when they can you back will likely have gotten to the bottom of it. You are concerned as they were on track for literacy (on track to reach their exams in a few years- they have hit all the milestones) and now working below expected level.

I know about those levels but have never seen them broken down into sub levels like the OP is describing.

I really wouldn't worry about it at this stage. The working grades are low early on in the term because they haven't done half the work yet. I'd wait to see how they're getting on further into the year. They've only been in high school a few weeks.

That’s curious. As others have said is more common to just get early, 1, 2, 3. This is because all areas of learning contain multiple strands and within level 2 a child could be working at 2.1 in reading and 2.3 in writing.

I’d question further, perhaps they report on the overall lowest? So your child could be level 3 in some strands?

I’d want more information - don’t rule out doing less well in whatever assessment tool they’re using as the environment etc has changed. That can impact confidence and therefore performance.

plenty of time to recover but I’d be doing a bit of digging.

I’ve had two go up to high school as well and not seen this. Our report cards have three levels. Something that means just getting to grips, meeting and exceeding and then the level they are on so you can go from exceeding at first stage to getting to grips with second stage. I wonder if that’s what has happened here? I think primary school teacher are a bit gushy, secondary school ones are a bit more factual, needs to do x as they have lots more students and don’t have the same personal relationship with each one. Your with your primary teacher for hours every day so they know you love books and you have an excellent vocabulary. Secondary school sees you for 50 min twice a week and knows whether you hsve completed the work type stuff.

I know the levels you're talking about and I would actually be interested in asking more. Some of the classes my daughter has the entire class has the same level as they work together. But for some, it's more individualised work (art, English, maths come to mind but probably others) so her level is different than someone else in the same year.

To be honest at this point in the year I wouldn't really worry about it as it's all brand new and there could be multiple reasons for it. I got more invested in it later in the year when they knew my daughter more. If you know anyone else in the class you could ask if they got the same thing if you'd be comfortable with that?

I would probably ask for more info and explain why. I suspect that the primary were a bit too enthusiastic but as a pp said above it is v early in the year still and at secondary they don’t see the kids as much as a primary teacher does so i don’t think I’d panic at this stage.

My child has also moved from primary to secondary - we moved from state to private and their end of year primary report said they were ‘gifted’ with numbers. I have family members who probably would come within that category and so I can say with certainty that my child isn’t (they are fine, they just aren’t gifted!) Their entrance exam for private school also supports this - they were perfectly average for the maths paper…
I think sometimes primary teachers can be over enthusiastic when they have a child that behaves well, works hard and does what they are meant to..!

we were consistently told that they were exceeding in all aspects of English

Were you told your DC had achieved level 2? Exceeding expectations always begs the question ‘whose expectations and what did they base those expectations on?’ The Scottish system is so subjective until you reach exams when even a synonym is not acceptable - something secondary school teachers will be much more aware of.

You could request your SNSA results to get another measure of attainment at primary?

I just dug out the p7 report and in June he was “on track to achieve second level by the end of p7 which is in line with national expectations”
He won an all school award for persuasive writing and he was an “excellent fluent and confident reader”.
So to now be working at level 2.2 in s1 while working at level 3.1 for all other subjects is odd.
As I say, there’s another report in December so I will maybe ask then. He says there’s not been any tests or anything do hopefully it’s just the way the English teacher works but they’ve only got him aiming for 3.1 by end S1 while all other subjects are targeting 3.2.

CfE levels are so woolly as to be meaningless. Our school gave gold silver and bronze level 3 then 4 for 1st-3rd year, which gave you a vague idea if they were making progress. It was broken down into areas like reading, talking, writing etc so it could be if they aren't doing that, one area is bringing the overall grade down slightly. Honestly, as long as it goes in the right direction, I wouldn't stress too much. Encourage lots of reading for pleasure, information, newspaper ( online!) timetables, recipes, anything. Share articles and ask why they agree or disagree.

Honestly, as long as it goes in the right direction

OP is concerned because it isn’t

One report card doesn't give a trend though. Do mention it because I tracked my child's scores and they went down. After much chasing, the head admitted the system was wrong and incorrect scores were given out.

My kid's school has a similar reporting system, and I find it baffling, particularly when comparing across subjects, so she can end up with a higher level in a subject I know for certain she's worse at (and eg test results would back that up). I think what happens is that in order to get level 3 they have to be being taught at level 3 otherwise they can't achieve it. So if early in S1 they're still consolidating/assessing after the transition from primary they may not yet be able to grade them as 3. If that's the case it would impact the whole class - do you have other parents you can check with?

I wouldn't worry at this point given you'll get another report in December and he's doing well in everything else. If he's still at level 2 at that point I'd be asking questions.

Each CfE Level is split into Phases that's all. His teacher expected him to achieve Second Level but you don't seem to have the information that he did, though Primary obviously were pretty confident. If he did then it can't be withdrawn. However , the S1 Report is a description of the level they are working at and so could reflect the standard of recent work. The English teacher may mark differently and ,then of course there's the comparison to all other catchment children instead of just his class.
Long story short, might be factors but agree with pps that just be positive and encouraging. Keep it in mind to chat about at the next Parents Night.