Gaelic and Scots

[Motheranddaughter]

Just read on the BBC website about the Scottish government’s plans to strengthen Gaelic medium education ,and make Gaelic and Scots (?) official languages
Off the top of my head I can think of many things they could focus improving before this

I agree with the total immersion point. But “total immersion” means just that - the world around the child has to function in that language, not just the school if the children are to gain real native level fluency. So family, shops, friends, TV, social media etc.

The challenge for minority language schools in Uk and Ireland, is that the lingua franca in the playground is often English not the target language, and English is usually spoken at home and in most settings outside school (less so with Welsh or in (very few) bits of the Gaeltacht areas) so it is much harder.

Children will acquire fluency but it may be limited - a bit like EU English. And I think there is a real problem around eg standardised Irish having lost much of the beauty and richness of the original language precisely because such a large proportion of speakers (and teachers) have acquired it as a second language. Much bigger issue with Scots Gaelic.

Still agree we should try to preserve what we still have!

I have a real issue with Gaelic (a proper language) being shoved into the same category as Scots (a dialect, mishmash, made-up language which varies hugely).

The Gaelic schools are popular with sharp-elbowed parents because they perform so well in the exam tables, the Gaelic part of it is irrelevant. Gaelic is utterly useless outside Scotland but that doesn't bother the SNP because who would ever want to live/work/travel outside the utopia which is Scotland? "Scots" even more useless, unless you want a job for the SNP "translating" standard English into nonsense.

It would be much better if they put the funding into - you know - paying for more teachers, increasing funding for SEN support, making sure schools have the right resources. But that doesn't play into the Scotland is different and special narrative.

You're correct, these are my perceptions. Based on living in an area that has a gaelic medium unit in, I think, all primary schools and from speaking to teachers locally and a retired teacher from the Gaelic School in Glasgow. For kids with an aptitude for languages it's great, for others it is not. The teachers can't tell parents that they think there child would manage better in EMU.

I hear Gaelic spoken in the street all the time, but only by older folk. GMU education has been a feature for 30 years locally. The language is still in freefall. Unless kids carry on speaking outside of the classroom they lose the ability.

Of course children will acquire a degree of Gaelic if they spend 7 years in a Gaelic medium school.

But I think you are being naive if you think the children aren’t speaking English to each other in the playground, indeed to each other in the classroom, and sometimes even back to the long-suffering teacher patiently talking to them in Gaelic.

Of course children coming to Glasgow will pick up English which is ubiquitous online and off.

For children who drop GME after primary, at best they will have a conversational level of fairly childish language. It does need investment and reinforcement from the parents, which unfortunately not enough parents appreciate.

I've got two kids in GME and I can report that their classes are absolutely rammed full as is the whole building, so we're not in it for small class sizes or swanky facilities. What they have access to is a richness of culture, an appreciation of music, a strong community spirit, dedicated staff who see the individual child and an ability to think flexibly that comes from bilingualism. Both my children, who are at opposite ends of the academic spectrum, are thriving in GME.

They don't always speak Gaelic in the playground, but they do speak a mix of Gaelic and English with their friends, at shinty, at dancing, in music lessons. They both go to a lot of extracurricular stuff that's conducted primarily in Gaelic.

I'm not a native speaker, but I've spent more than a decade learning in order to support my children's education. It's not an easy option by any means and takes commitment. It's a choice we've made as parents, so I'm very aware of our responsibility to support our children as much as possible.

It's not a choice that suits everyone, but I'm not sure why people would want to take that choice away from others.

No one is taking away the choice, we just don't think imposing compulsory Gaelic & Scots is a good use of money. For those claiming great academic outcomes I'd love for see evidence - the Glasgow Gaelic high school teaches in English for secondary, and the Edinburgh is a stream at James Gillespie's and there the only school outcomes are for all students, nothing specific to the Gaelic medium stream is available.

As an aside, no way on earth would I let my kids play shinty - it's hockey plus more violence.

I don't have a problem with gaelic medium education, those kids are state educated like mine are and if they weren't in a gaelic school they would be in other state schools so it doesn't make much difference.

What does cost money is creating jobs writing materials in Gaelic or "Scots" for education and the Scot Gov which nobody ever reads.

Not accurate. The Gaelic School in Glasgow teaches loads of the classes in entirely in Gàidhlig; the Sciences, Maths, PE, Art, French, German, Gàidhlig obviously and all the social subjects, geography, history and modern studies. My kids went to this school. They sat a fair few SQA exams entirely in Gàidhlig. Both at uni now. It’s also one of Glasgow’s best performing schools.

Why the books written in Scots? It’s embarrassing nonsense, a world away from Burns. Not to mention when Emma Harper - possibly the least intelligent MSP ever - mangled it regularly in Holyrood.

Interestingly, in the last lot of SQA exams invigilator guidelines were to give an extra 15 minutes for Gaelic medium language exams So if Higher History was 2 hours, the Higher eachdraidh students got 2 hours 15.

Which doesn't really seem fair.

I work near Glasgow with someone in their 30s who didn't speak any English until they were 6. They and their siblings went through their entire schooling in GME in the Central Belt (Gaelic was spoken at home but they encountered English at Scouts, etc). They have a sibling who did a science degree and then a PGDE to teach that science. It was noted that the sibling was a native Gaelic speaker and they were encouraged to teach at Glasgow Gaelic School (the science is taught in Gaelic).

"For children who drop GME after primary, at best they will have a conversational level of fairly childish language. "

In their own speech, yes, but they will understand a lot more and have a basis on which to build should they decide to take up lessons again in adulthood.

This is true, yes,

I’m very in favour of GME, but I see the true bilingualism is not always a given.