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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Gaelic and Scots

88 replies

Motheranddaughter · 10/06/2025 13:22

Just read on the BBC website about the Scottish government’s plans to strengthen Gaelic medium education ,and make Gaelic and Scots (?) official languages
Off the top of my head I can think of many things they could focus improving before this

OP posts:
RaraRachael · 11/06/2025 10:48

I can understand why people who have no connection to Gaelic don’t want to educate their children in the language.

In that case the SG should concentrate on rolling out this initiative in areas where there are Gaelic speakers or interest ie not in the NE. Personally I don't know a single person who speaks Gaelic, has any interest in their children being taught it or any teachers who could teach it.

As I said previously, there is far too much to cram into the CfE as it is without adding to it for something that will be of no benefit to children in our area.

Nobel · 11/06/2025 11:01

The opening of Gaelic schools in areas where Gaelic is traditionally not spoken is 90% a political manoeuvre. That’s why I object to it. It seeks to ‘other’ Scots from the rest of the UK and as a British citizen I object.

RaraRachael · 11/06/2025 11:06

When i was at school in the 60s and 70s we were told off for speaking Doric, Sadly over the course of my teaching career, the only children who seem to speak it are those who spend a lot of time with grandparents. You're more likely to hear about diapers and sweaters than hippins and gansies.

However, I'm not advocating that Doric is taught all over Scotland to prevent it dying out. That would be as ridiculous an idea as this latest tosh being trotted out by the SG.

haggisaggis · 11/06/2025 11:16

@RaraRachael there is a Gaelic Medium unit in Whitehills Primary in Forfar, Gaelic classes for adults in Dundee and surrounding communities as well as a Gaelic choir so I think it’s wrong to say there is no interest in the NE.

Aaron95 · 11/06/2025 11:21

Theyreeatingthedogs · 10/06/2025 23:11

When you eventually master the English language feel free to step up to the Doric or Erse.

Th' fitslikers'll be spreadyin'. T'day Peterheid, the morn the warld.

They toonsers wull be sune speirin' "foos yer doos?"

Beithe · 11/06/2025 11:22

And there are Gaelic medium classes in Aberdeen and Nairn. Plus a thriving Gaelic choir in Aberdeen.
Gaelic has deep roots in the NE - the earliest known Scottish Gaelic text 'the Book of Deer' comes from there.

Aaron95 · 11/06/2025 12:17

Nobel · 10/06/2025 20:55

Of course it’s nonsense teaching Gaelic in the central belt. The SNP just fund it as they want to put all and any barriers up between Scotland and the rest of the UK as possible.

It's not just the SNP. The "Gaelic Mafia" predates the SNP government by some distance. Even the Gaelic Language Act was pased before the SNP took power.

Nobel · 11/06/2025 12:40

Teaching Gaelic in areas where it is the spoken language is vital. Teaching it in other areas to people who have no connections to such areas is a laughable waste of money.

justasking111 · 11/06/2025 13:04

Great piece on BBC Wales where they interviewed locals in a South Wales valley. Back in the sixties 80%. Spoke Welsh. One lady whose family had lived there for many generations pointed out that despite speaking Welsh in school classrooms children, watched TV, tik tok, you tube in English so outside the classroom they all spoke English as did their parents.

Another point made was what about the NHS in Wales, how can we attract staff from outside wales if we force Welsh on their children. Consultants, GPs come and go for career reasons, their only option private education, so it's cheaper to stay in England.

It's the same with any industry, how do we hire the best in industry who are married with children. There needs to be choice.

RaraRachael · 11/06/2025 13:21

@haggisaggis I wouldn't call Forfar and Dundee the North East. Maybe they are to people living further south.

margotsdevil · 11/06/2025 13:24

For those who say GME is no more expensive - in many GME units children benefit from significantly smaller class sizes - sometimes barely into double digits. That is definitely more expensive than including those children in standard sized classes.

ThatAgileCoralBird · 11/06/2025 13:38

The Gaelic medium unit at whitehills primary in forfar can accommodate up to 16 pupils across P1-P7.

the only people I know in Angus that are learning Gaelic run the Yes Carnoustie group at the independence Carn Ustaidh hub.

haggisaggis · 11/06/2025 13:51

I live in Angus and am learning Gaelic and do not attend the hub in Carnoustie.

ThatAgileCoralBird · 11/06/2025 13:52

You can learn Gaelic on Duolingo.

CremeEggThief · 11/06/2025 13:54

Speaking as an Irish person, I think you should have a bit more appreciation and respect yor your country's native languages.

haggisaggis · 11/06/2025 13:54

@RaraRachael I live in Arbroath and consider myself as living in the North East of Scotland.

ThatAgileCoralBird · 11/06/2025 13:58

I would regard dundee and Angus as north east.

Purpleisnotmycolour · 11/06/2025 14:04

I do have respect for the Scots and Gaelic languages but don't think they should be pushed as much. It's definitely political. There are opportunities to study the languages at higher education, that's plenty unless it is a genuinely Gaelic speaking area. GME does cost more, our council taxis kids to a Gaelic school in another area, spending a fortune. The schools do well because of middle class parents pushing for it and the small classes.

RaraRachael · 11/06/2025 14:06

I'd consider Moray, Aberdeen City, Aberdeenshire and a bit of Highland to be the NE but I live a lot further NE than Arbroath or Dundee

JustASmallBear · 11/06/2025 14:09

CremeEggThief · 11/06/2025 13:54

Speaking as an Irish person, I think you should have a bit more appreciation and respect yor your country's native languages.

Well said!

Meeplemakeglasgow · 11/06/2025 14:25

For all the people arguing over the semantics whether it is more expensive or not, I’d ask this.

So what?

As a country we choose to spend more on some and less on others, this is just another thing.

Loads of rural schools have less pupils for example.

Some schools need to board pupils.

I don’t think it will be more expensive apart from some ancillary costs, and the higher achievement will lead to more tax being paid eventually.

The real question is does it provide value?

That depends on whether you think keeping indigenous languages functionally alive (eg not just academically) and unlocking the cultural benefits of them such as music and poetry are worth it.

From a purely personal observation, people I know who send their children to Gaelscoil tend to be from more creative families, often spending more time in nature and having children who accomplish in art and traditional music at an early age.

Those who are against it in my experience seem to more business/economy orientated and value material possessions/fashion/cars more than others, cultural activities tend to be more mainstream and kid’s music more brass/orchestra focused.

In other words, shockingly, not everyone has to choose the same way of life or have the same beliefs.

Before I get the exceptions pointed out I’m aware this is a generalisation and as a caveat it’s purely my own observation.

The point I’m trying to make though is that there is room in the country for both types of people, but do we really want to be part of a country where you would deny people the chance to educate their children using an indigenous language that they value and believe in just to save a few pounds?

TopographicalTime · 11/06/2025 14:53

haggisaggis · 11/06/2025 11:16

@RaraRachael there is a Gaelic Medium unit in Whitehills Primary in Forfar, Gaelic classes for adults in Dundee and surrounding communities as well as a Gaelic choir so I think it’s wrong to say there is no interest in the NE.

Dundee is not in the North East!

TopographicalTime · 11/06/2025 14:58

Meeplemakeglasgow · 11/06/2025 14:25

For all the people arguing over the semantics whether it is more expensive or not, I’d ask this.

So what?

As a country we choose to spend more on some and less on others, this is just another thing.

Loads of rural schools have less pupils for example.

Some schools need to board pupils.

I don’t think it will be more expensive apart from some ancillary costs, and the higher achievement will lead to more tax being paid eventually.

The real question is does it provide value?

That depends on whether you think keeping indigenous languages functionally alive (eg not just academically) and unlocking the cultural benefits of them such as music and poetry are worth it.

From a purely personal observation, people I know who send their children to Gaelscoil tend to be from more creative families, often spending more time in nature and having children who accomplish in art and traditional music at an early age.

Those who are against it in my experience seem to more business/economy orientated and value material possessions/fashion/cars more than others, cultural activities tend to be more mainstream and kid’s music more brass/orchestra focused.

In other words, shockingly, not everyone has to choose the same way of life or have the same beliefs.

Before I get the exceptions pointed out I’m aware this is a generalisation and as a caveat it’s purely my own observation.

The point I’m trying to make though is that there is room in the country for both types of people, but do we really want to be part of a country where you would deny people the chance to educate their children using an indigenous language that they value and believe in just to save a few pounds?

That's a massively judgemental post. Making sweeping generalisations about the parents sending their kids to different types of a schools is very offensive. The only families I know who opted for Gaelic medium primary did it to avoid their rubbish catchment school.

How are you defining a native language? Gaelic originates in Irish Gaelic so shouldn't we be reverting to that, plus Norse and Cumbric?

Nobel · 11/06/2025 15:46

TopographicalTime · 11/06/2025 14:58

That's a massively judgemental post. Making sweeping generalisations about the parents sending their kids to different types of a schools is very offensive. The only families I know who opted for Gaelic medium primary did it to avoid their rubbish catchment school.

How are you defining a native language? Gaelic originates in Irish Gaelic so shouldn't we be reverting to that, plus Norse and Cumbric?

Yeh my kids went to James Gillespie and the kids from the Gaelic part of the school were the trouble makers. A lot of them were pissed off that their parents had signed them up for Gaelic which they had no interest in whatsoever to avoid whatever dodgy school was their catchment. Wasn’t sure how true that was until the council tried to move the Gaelic provision to be twinned with Liberton High (a school that does badly on league tables) and the parents were outraged.

haggisaggis · 11/06/2025 18:29

@TopographicalTime if you Google it would appear North East Scotland covers the Eastern area of Scotland North of the River Forth and South of the Moray Firth - so yes, Dundee is in NE Scotland