Sending non catholic child to catholic school - Glasgow

[naemates]

DS is still pretty young, but I'm thinking ahead - mostly as I've no idea how schools work here. Assuming we have a choice, the two nearest schools are a pretty sad looking non denominational school and a much more pleasant looking Catholic school. We are not religious, but nor are we from Glasgow and since many of the schools here are Catholic, I'm assuming it's not that weird for non catholics to go to Catholic school? My non religious mum worked for her local church for a while, and I feel this would be similar to that, respecting beliefs while not having to pretend to believe? Am I miles out and being daft?

My Stepson is at a catholic primary, I’d estimate about 40% of the kids there are non-Catholics based on how many made their first communion last year.

The West of Scotland is unfortunately the only part of Britain where religious schools seem to still cause an issue and attract lots of myths and prejudices.

Apart from morning prayers and sacrament preparations, which can be opted out of, there isn’t really much difference between an RC and ND school.

RC schools may seem a bit more traditional, which has it’s good and bad points, they may be more disciplined/strict but are much less likely to spout any of the gender/mermaids nonsense that other schools seem to have suffered.

Interestingly Calderwood Lodge, the only state Jewish School in Scotland, has a high proportion of children from other/no religions attend.

It’s really not uncommon to go to a school that doesn’t align with your religion, if you think it’s the right school then go for it.

Not Glasgow but central Scotland. Our local catholic school used to allow anyone to go to the school but recently they've changed it and you need to provide proof of baptism to attend. I don't really understand why you would send your child to a catholic school if they aren't catholic, surely they would be doing a lot of religious stuff and go to mass etc? (Not an expert, not catholic but husband was and went to a catholic school).

@op once you chose catholic primary it’s only the catholic secondary that becomes your catchment school. You would need to do a placing request to get into your catchment non-dom school. So look at the secondaries too for your decision.

check the Gaelic primaries out too if they’re an option for you and your catchment choices aren’t great.

not out of the world to choose catholic schooling as an atheist. That said as a veteran of the Glasgow Catholic primary myself I didn’t choose it for my own!!

There are plenty of non-Catholic children in Catholic schools. AFAIK (my kids went non-denom), there are some years in Catholic schools where there are more issues than others for those of different faiths or none. Round here, the children are all prepared in school for their first communion in P3 and all the children in that school year go through it on the same day. So that obviously takes a lot of teaching/prep time and you need to think how you feel about that.

Also I'd raise the issue of transition to secondary. Many places in Scotland especially in the suburbs of Glasgow and other places in the central belt are having huge pressures on school places, and rules about catchment secondaries are changing. This MAY mean that if you opt for your local catholic primary, you are by default opting for the catholic secondary which could be a lot further than your non-denom secondary. You may have to submit a placement request if you wish to switch into the non-denom system at the end of P7. It varies across council areas but it's something you really should think about.

My friend lives in Glasgow. Her kids went to John Paul Academy as my friend did not like the non-denominational alternative.

They are not Catholic, they are not religious at all, and they are Rangers supporters.

As far as I know they got on fine, they left school a year or two ago.

But I think a better option would be to research schools and possibly move for a better catchment?

What school is it? I think some kids go to St Thomas Aquinas rather than Knightswood for similar reasons although I am not in Glasgow myself and have no direct experience.

Our catchment Catholic school prioritises baptised Catholic children and then consider non-Catholic children so while there are plenty of non-Catholics, it's harder to get into the school if you aren't.

My family values wouldn't align with the version of RMPS that is delivered there so it was never an option for us.

As an aside - I'm Jewish and an immigrant so the level of Christian education that the state school's provide was genuinely a shock to me (there's a separation of church and state in the states so there would never be a nativity or a lesson on the Easter story or anything like that in a non-Christian school). I know the Catholic school regularly goes to mass and has additional lessons etc on top of the norm so it depends on how you feel about that.

@PurpleThistle7 You touched onto something else interesting there.

Non-Denominational schools here don’t mean no-religion, they mean that they are not tied to a particular sect of Protestantism.

For instance in my older kid’s school they were visited regularly by both Presbyterian and Methodist ministers throughout primary.

They had to attend services during the festivals etc…

How much of this they get varies from school to school as it’s often down to the staff and relationships with local churches etc…

But it’s hard to avoid all religion here.

Incidentally there’s a Jewish Primary school close to me as well, that is also well attended by lots of kids from other religions.

Not the case in East Dunbartonshire
For example most of the kids who go to St Nicholas catholic primary go on to Bearsden Academy is Douglas Academy

How I would not send my DC to a catholic school unless they were being brought up as catholics

In Edinburgh this would be pretty much normal and acceptable. Glasgow not so much.

@Wishingplenty From the comments on the thread and my personal experience it looks as if it’s fairly common in and around Glasgow.

I’m from Glasgow, too. Out of interest, what would the non-dom one in the catchment be? Springburn Academy?

I recently revisited the Catholic primary school I attended as a child ( for an anniversary/reunion type event) at least 40% of the children now attending are not Catholic and there was a very interesting presentation by the kids on racism/ multiculturalism.

There were a small number of non Catholic kids at the RC secondary I attended ( many years ago) and this is now again at least 30% non Catholic - so this is now quite normal. As others have said - it depends on how much you agree with the ethos of the school.

@ladyamy Cleveden

In Glasgow you have two catchment schools -one catholic and one non denominational. You can pick which one you like. Be aware however that whatever you pick will mean their secondary catchment school is also chosen. If you pick a catholic primary your catchment secondary school will be the catholic secondary school and vice versa. If you want to change sectors at that point you'll have to put in a placing request. Placing requests are granted if there is space in the school but not if education can demonstrate valid reasons for declining. You can take it to appeal where you can go in front of a panel and argue your side. If you move house within Glasgow the above still applies so if you choose catholic education your new catchment school will be catholic and you will need to put a placing request in to change sectors. If you put in a placing request for a primary school outside your catchment area and it is granted you will still be in the catchment Secondary for your postcode so will run the risk of your child going to a different Secondary to their classmates. Also worth noting there is also the Gaelic option but that's a whole other can of worms! Feel free to PM me

I taught in a Catholic school for twenty years
Lots of non-Catholics went to it. There was no attempt to indoctrinate non-Catholic children in another faith. All pupils came to church service at Easter,Xmas etc but did not take Mass. RE classes looked at many religions as well as teaching Catholic doctrine. I was one of several non-Catholic teachers there and it was a very good school indeed.

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@Motheranddaughter there were rumblings from East Dunbartonshire about changing this a few years ago to relieve the pressure on spaces at schools in Bearsden/Milngavie, around the time they closed St Joseph's in Milngavie and moved all the kids to the new St Nick's. A good friend of mine was very involved in arguing with the council.

AFAIK the rules in East Dun at least say that kids who have been to St Nick's are still at the top of the pecking order for a place at Bearsden/Douglas/Boclair as long as they live in the catchment area. If they live outwith the catchment the fact they have been at an East Dun primary on a placing request doesn't give them any advantage. They put in a "5 mile" rule which means that if you live in Bearsden/Milngavie that you have a better chance of a placing request because the associated Catholic High school is in Bishopbriggs and more than 5 miles by road.

It's complicated and will lilkely change again in the future if the schools continue to struggle to accommodate placing requests.

Yes that true,there have been various attempts to restrict access to non denominational schools in Bearsden/Milngavie but they have all failed

So far

I work in a catholic high school in a so called sectarian area of Glasgow. There are loads of non catholic pupils and most "catholic" pupils aren't practicing Catholics. I haven't heard of any issues for pupils.. thank fully times have changed

When I am queen of the world (or queen of Scotland at least) education and religion will be completely separate. You want your child to learn anything other than religion in an academic sense, you send them to church/temple/synagogue/mosque. No religious leaders in schools.

@SnoozingFox Take it you would shut down Spelman College and Howard Uni as well in that case?

Not in Scotland.

I teach in a Scottish Catholic school. A third of our teaching staff are non Catholic as are most of our pupils. Even most of those who are Catholic do not attend Mass outwith school. It's not at all rare

A friend sent her daughter to a Catholic school (London, so no sectarian issues). She pulled her out in year 4 because she felt she was getting messages about not being good enough as she wasn't going to be confirmed and her daughter was feeling very left out.

I grew up in a highly sectarian area of the West of Scotland and I wouldn't underestimate how difficult it could be for your daughter. And you.

@SnoozingFox not really the point, all of them were founded due to a minority group being excluded from mainstream society and education.

Over the years they had to build their own institutions and have made successful educational institutions that have been opened to all.

But you think you have the right to order them to close.

How would you frame that conversation exactly?

Something along the lines of “Well we know we tried to exclude you from society and forced you to endure horrendous discrimination and bigotry, hell even now we still allow hundreds of hate marches against you every year because, well you know, tradition. But you need to shut down the schools you were forced to build now because we promise to behave, honest”