Six subjects in S4 the norm?

[DeathStarCanteenGal]

DD is about to pick her subjects for S4 and can only pick 6 subjects - which she will then do at anything from Nat 3 to Nat 5 level, depending in what the school think she will pass. Although she seems quite bright and quite conscious, so au hope Nat 5s are doable
But given I did eight subjects at S4 this just doesn't seem like a lot - however I fully accept I was at high school back in the 80s and thing have changed since then, so wondered if this is the norm?
school say they do this because it is what 'most students' can cope with

@DeathStarCanteenGal I'm sure sge will find her way, and it sounds like she's got a supportive parent in you too.

It really, really is exactly what is happening.

Locally they have just switched from 6 back to 7 nat5s but my son's cohort only did 6. Most went on to do 5 Highers in S5 and are doing a mis-mash of Highers, Advanced Highers and other odds and ends in S6. He didn't really have any idea what he wanted to do, but knew his weaknesses (ie no essay subjects apart from English which was compulsory) and has picked up his 6th Nat5 again in S6 as a Higher.

There’s always the private option for those that can afford it. One of my friends withdrew their child from a 6 Nat 5 state school to go to an 8 nat5 private as they thought 6 subjects from such a young age was madness. That state school has now upped it to 7 Nat 5s. I’m surprised at the variation though.

Hi OP intrigued to know which school as I'm West Lothian and my DD is heading to high school soon. I've not a scooby about NATs or the levels. I done standard grades and it was 8 we had to do maths and English, a science, a social subject then the rest was free rein. 6 does seem a bit limiting in terms of moving in to higher etc. I started higher computing but decided after a few weeks I was kidding myself so dropped it and took another higher that I'd done my standard grade in so was a bit more flexible xx

The variation from school to school is very worrying too. It puts many pupils at a disadvantage. It's all very well saying it doesn't matter or make any difference but competition for some university places is very fierce. Who would you choose....a pupil with 8 or 9 N5s at Grade A , or the one with only 6?

Mine did 7. Then 5 highers. No school local to me only does 6

@Cece92 non denominational school - initials BA
like much of West Lothian there's fairly high levels of deprivation in our town, so wonder if that affects things...
going private not at option for us

DS has qualifications in N5 physics, N5 chemistry, Higher Chemistry and Higher Biology so he did cover all three - just not all at once!

The H Biology was a crash Higher.

Some in our local authority does 6, others seem to do 8. Weird.

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I'd not definitely choose a candidate based on how many Nat5s their school put them forward for! Nat5s really aren't that important overall, though they seem so at the time. Some of us are also well aware that children don't all get the same opportunities in life.

And no, you don't need to sit 5 Highers all in S5, it's possible for many who are not intending to do medicine or law to space it out if they feel that is a better set up. They are all different. DS hasn't got in a flap. He got 4 Highers in S5, and is sitting an AH, Higher, Nat 5 and NPA in S6.

There isn't a set way, it's great they can mix and match different qualifications in S5 and S6 - more time to reflect on what they want to do. DS wasn't interested in doing 5 Highers in one sitting as he was planning on staying on for S6 to gain more qualifications.

Highers usually supercede the Nat5s though. They're a bit irrelevant if you're heading on to uni with several good Highers under your belt.

that's interesting @Vettrianofan
DD is January born and one of the youngest in her year, so is definitely planning on staying on for S6

What other metric could you use to differentiate, all other things being equal?

And yet DCHS who must have fairly high levels of deprivation in their catchment (although it's mixed) seem to do 7. And schools with lower levels of deprivation do 6. It makes no sense to me.

In saying that though, I sympathise with those who didn't get a school where you can sit 8 Nat5s. It's good to have the option, but at the same time it won't hold them back.

As I said, DS crashed H Biology with no Nat5 Biology behind him and succeeded. It was the only subject he liked the look of in S5 to fill out the timetable 😂 and he was one of those at a school where he sat and passed 8 Nat5s (biology not being one of them!). He really enjoyed the subject, had a very supportive teacher which I think helped massively.

OP your DD may end up crashing the most random of Highers too when it's her turn regardless of the number of Nat5s she sits. She'll do great regardless.

It actually does make sense if you think about it. It's giving those who are less able to do Highers a leg up by gaining more qualifications at a level they can easily achieve and pass well in S4/S5 to then leave and continue on to college.

Those who are more academically able will not need to over egg it and move on to Highers from S5 instead.

I really don't think Nat5s are looked at for uni entrance in Scotland- certainly not in the way GCSEs are looked at in England, maybe because we apply with Highers mostly in hand rather than just predicted grades. There are quite a few in my son's year at his school and the other local high school applying for eg medicine with 6 Nat5s and it doesn't seem to be doing them any harm.

I was initially a bit upset that he would only do 6, but for him individually it actually worked out well. He got better Nat5 results in his core subjects than I think he would have got if he'd had to add another couple of exams into the mix.

thanks @TRNSMTtaxi that's reassuring hear

My eldest was in the first CfE cohort, and the high school implemented it as intended, with the broad general phase covering all subjects up to the end of S3 and then reducing to six Nat 5 subjects in S4 (to include maths and English). The argument then was that teaching time in S4 could only cover four subjects plus maths and English.

Some schools (generally the private ones) stopped the broad general phase at the end of S2, so had two years to cover the Nat 5 subjects and would offer six subjects in addition to maths and English.

At the time, the universities issued statements to say that students taking only six Nat 5s would not be disadvantaged compared to those allowed to sit seven or eight.

It was tricky in that anyone aiming for medicine usually took physics and chemistry at Nat 5 (you could only choose two sciences) and then took biology as a crash Higher in S5.

My DC did six Nat 5s, five Highers (crashed one) and three AHs and went on to uni. Quite a few in his year did medicine or vet med or engineering so six Nat 5s, whilst not ideal, didn’t hold them back.

The high school now allows an additional two subjects at Nat 5 because they narrow down to eight subjects in S3 (including maths and English), and it’s possible to take all three sciences.

@SabrinaThwaite that's exactly how my son's school did it - 10 subjects to S3 and 6 in S4. He did all three sciences to S3 and then only 2 to Nat5/H but could have picked up the third again in S6 if he'd really wanted to. His year was in lockdown during chunks of S1 and 2 -they got some allowance for this for Nat5s but none for Highers (but that's a different rant!)

Similar process at my son's school regarding S3 options. The extra year of a subject can help for both selecting which Nat5s to actually pursue, and if they pick up a crash Higher in one of these subjects then they may have a bit more existing knowledge than if dropped at S2.

I found a choice of only four subjects very limiting, particularly for students that had wide ranging interests (I did seven in addition to the compulsory English language, English lit and maths at O level).