Will we ever “fit in”?

[ellabellaaaa]

Myself (33, F) and my DH (34, M) moved to Scotland in 2016, the first couple of years in Glasgow and the past 6 years in Edinburgh. We are both from SE England.

A (Scottish) work friend recently said that if myself and DH have children in Scotland, they will never fully fit in and will most likely be bullied for having English parents.

Over the years, we have occasionally received comments along the lines of “when are you going home” and some (mostly friendly) mocking of our accents but never anything overtly anglophobic.

The comments of my friend have been weighing on mind and I’ve been feeling more that I can’t stay in Scotland to raise a family (we are 100s of
miles from our nearest relative so building a support network with other parents will be important if we have kids).

Thoughts?

Of the couples with kids I know in Edinburgh, I can only think of one where both are Scottish. Loads where neither are. And even then, one has a posh-Edinburgh accent that sounds English.

That's a shame. Hope you're happier now.

We are - much happier. I don’t think we really realised until the last few years we were there how much it felt like hard work trying to be accepted. Our DC were all instantly more relaxed when we moved here and it felt like a weight had been lifted for us all.

Before we moved here I came back maybe once a year at most with the DC. DH was rarely here as I usually brought them over during school holidays for a few days when he was still working, so it wasn’t like we had strong networks here before we moved. My family are here but we are low contact so we definitely didn’t make the move for them.

Interestingly, we’re now at the stage with 2 at university and another 2 still to go and none of them have even wanted to consider a Scottish uni. For second one, Edinburgh was a really strong option for the chosen course but they didn’t even want to go and see it. It’s sad in a way, we worked so hard to build a life there, we have more than 2 decades of memories there, our DC’s childhoods were there, and I don’t think any of us would be sad if we never went back. It’s a horrible feeling knowing you’re an outsider no matter what you do.

@TamiTaylorIsMyParentingGuru if it’s any consolation, I grew up in the rural North East, and we were always considered “in-aboot-comers” because my Scottish parents are from the Central Belt. I think it’s similar in that respect to many rural, more isolated areas all over the UK.

@MightySnail - Not based on that one comment alone, that would seem quite extreme (haha!). But it did exacerbate some underlying feelings of not belonging and feeling very far from family. We’ve met some lovely people in Edinburgh but tbh have struggled to make really good friendships. WFH doesn’t help, nor does my social anxiety that seems to have got much worse in recent years. If we’re staying, I know we need to put in more effort next year to meet new people and cement existing friendships.

Comments about needing a thicker skin are probably bang on. Resolution for 2025 - not to care so much about what other people think!

Thanks all. It’s so interesting to hear everyone’s perspectives and experiences. I wonder whether there will always some element of being an “outsider” wherever we go. We thought about Northumberland for a while last year but the commute to Edinburgh seems unnecessarily long. A few of my family members were from the NE so growing up I visited quite often and therefore I know some of the towns fairly well. People seem very welcoming but I’m obviously not from there either nor have I ever lived there… The appeal would be being English in England, while retaining the jobs we enjoy.

The general consensus seems to be that Edinburgh is diverse and kids will be used to a range of backgrounds and accents. However, if we stay in Scotland, we’d probably like to move out of the city to a town or village. We looked at a few houses East Lothian until I got cold feet about whether to stay. Hopefully it would be welcoming out there too, but perhaps not as diverse as Edinburgh itself.

DH’s best mate moved to the Highlands with 4 children, all of school age at the time. While he and his wife haven’t changed how they speak, all of the children sound like native Scots. They’re well embedded in the community and don’t seem to have any issues.

(they’ve been there for about 10 years now.)

East Lothian is teeming with plenty of non natives as most locals are pushed out due to rising property prices. I wouldn't see it a problem fitting in OP if you started a family in this particular area.

I really do hate the arrogance of people who think that just because they have never experienced something, that it cannot possibly exist.

@MissEloiseBridgerton just because you have never come across it yourself does not mean it doesn't happen.

I live in Scotland. My children have gone to school in a Glasgow city school and then schools in a nearby village. There have been kids with parents from England, Germany, Spain, India, Pakistan, Brazil, Ireland..... None of them have been bullied for their parents heritage. Bullying does happen but never about being English.

I think it depends on the location but also the size of school.
We are both English but chose to apply out of catchment to a larger school which would give DS1 more friends opportunities then the local village one which had a small cohort.

My DS's sound completely English. So far we haven't had issues with it but the larger school there is also more mix of parents from different countries as well.

Are you English?

I grew up as an English girl in Scotland. I can assure you I had the absolute living shit bullied out of me for being English. I sincerely hope it's changed since then.

I’m Welsh, but have English parents, and as a result, not a strong Welsh accent.

DD, who attends a Welsh medium high school, is also Welsh. DH is English. She has a slightly stronger Welsh accent than me, but has been teased at school for not sounding like everyone else. (She just tells them to F off these days.)

My husband and I both have SE English accents and live in South Scotland. We absolutely love it, have lots of friends, lots of lovely places to go and wouldn't live anywhere else. BUT. . . We get used to tradespeople being Interested in a job via text or email but never getting back to you once they hear you're English. We avoid going out when footballs on, we have been verbally abused. Let's face it. It's racism. And it hurts. But it's a small minority.

My DH is English and aside from good-natured ribbing about his pronunciation of some place names at work, he's not had any negative comments in his more than a decade of living in fairly rural north-east Scotland. There are a quite a lot of English people living in our village who are just part of the community (scout leaders, on the PTA, all that sort of stuff), same as anyone else, along with all sorts of other nationalities. People move around a lot more these days and it's entirely usual even in villages to have people from not just all over Scotland, but the UK and further afield.

Our DC don't have English accents as such but they also don't have the same accents as much of their classmates, I'd say very soft and subtle Scottish accent currently. No one has ever mentioned it.

No I'm not English. Neither will OPs children be English. They will be born in Scotland to English parents and will be raised alongside other local children, moving up from toddlers to nursery to primary to secondary. It's not the same as moving up here as new kid.

Having said that, my best friend grew up in England before moving here. Wasn't bullied. My best work friend is English, none of her children have been bullied because of their heritage. My son's best friends have English and Polish parents.... Never been bullied. And one of the kids in my youngest child's class has an English parent and IS the class bully.

Bullying exists and if a child wants/needs to bully, they will find a reason to do it. I don't know for a fact, but I'd guess that having English parents doesn't increase the likelihood of bullying anymore than having ginger hair, being shit at football, wearing rubbish trainers or being in the chess club!

I didn't say it increased the likelihood of being bullied. But it is a reason for being bullied. I'm really glad that your friends and everyone you know, has not been bullied for being English. That doesn't change the fact that I was. It happens.

Anyway, I should have known better than to post, as this will go the way of many others. Loads of people saying it never happens because they haven't personally experienced it, with a few people popping their heads up to say, actually that's not true it happened to me.

Scotland is a brilliant place. I have family still living there and lots of friends. But I got the shit kicked out of me growing up because I was English. It's difficult to forget that when it's literally being spat in your face.

Hiding the thread now.

I think it's changed a lot though, as in the last 20 years or so people have become far more mobile in terms of moving for new jobs, moving away from hometowns, etc. as well as with the rise in the internet, social media, etc., becoming a lot more 'connected' to the world at large and familiar with other nationalities and cultures. English people are not unusual beings in most Scottish places now.

I'm just not sure how useful people's experiences of 20+ years ago, awful as they are, are to modern day Scottish living in the majority of places. Just my two pence as someone who has always lived here and who has an English husband.

Came for the post, stayed for the 'outwith' chat

Honestly, I'd see this as a 'tell'. SHE thinks you don't fit in. If SHE was at school with your kids, she'd bully them. That means SHE is xenophobic and a little bit racist. The rest of the world isn't. Pay her no mind.

If you do naice East Lothian you'll be fine: North Berwick, Gullane and the like. Off the coast East Lothian is a shitehole, I'm from there though so I'm allowed to say it. I'd get bullied for staying in Edinburgh for so long if I moved back there.

She sounds like she's projecting insecurities onto you. As long as your kids grow up being polite and inclusive, don't worry about what others say.

Made me think of my mum!

She is Scottish, as is dad.

Moved from Edinburgh to a rural Scottish village. Fifty years ago, chucked herself into the community, in ridiculous levels. Was the nurse, ran the community council, a cinema pop up, theatre, church, helps at school, runs events, blah blah.

One elderly lady every times she sees her says to her. Usually when mum is delivering her medication run

Remember, you will never be from here. Your children are but never you!!

😂😂

Standing family joke now. Can't argue with crazy. I'm over 40 and was born here so I'm ok.