To want to move to England because of Scottish tax.

[Nogg]

Is anyone else thinking of moving to England because of tax. I’m a single parent and I am paying 7k extra tax a year. The place I live is run down. I really want to move but the only issue kids settled in ( failing) Scottish education system. I wonder if anything will change at next election? Hate SNP and what they have done to Scotland.

What is Barnett consequentials?

@Examconfusion surprisingly hard to find an easy answer to that question - it makes my brain hurt but at root, it’s transfers of money to devolved nations from rUK. Richer areas subsiding poorer areas like they do in every democracy and as happens on an individual level with tax payers.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,ifs-say-barnett-formula-leaves-spending-in-scotland-30-higher-per-person-than-in-england

I don’t want to debate Indy though - i do think quality of life is better here for my family but much of that is due to Scottish society fundamentals and not a lot to do with the SNP - although putting more money into the hands of poorer families is a good left of centre policy for any govt.

Also Income tax devolution is set to cost Scottish Government a fortune. Unnecessary why we are paying more tax than the rest of uk for less income than we would have had. SNP are economically inexperienced and inept.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/income-tax-devolution-is-set-to-cost-scottish-government-a-fortune-so-why-is-no-one-talking-about-it-john-mclaren-3851593

Well yes. That's how taxes work 🤷🏻‍♀️

I mean, how much Bailey's do you actually need? 🤔

*RonSel
"Free" anything just means you (or someone else) gives more money to the gov for them to give it back to you in kind."

Well yes. That's how taxes work 🤷🏻‍♀️*

Well yes that's my point entirely @AllIsMerryAndBright
People from elsewhere in UK come on here and talk about all the "freebies" we get in Scotland. It's not free, it's paid for by higher taxes which most of them are completely unaware of!

I'm not actually sure that means testing "free" prescriptions actually saves money. If you consider treating stuff that's worse due to waiting for payday to fill them and admin costs...

30 hours universal helps people back to work increasing tax take too

If you're paying an extra £7k tax a year you must be earning about £180-200k a year, hardly on the breadline.
If the area you live in is so rundown why don't you use some of that money to move to a nicer area?

I am quite happy to pay the higher tax rate, the public services in return are absolutely worth it in my opinion. I'm not happy with everything under SNP but I do think that I have a much higher standard of living than I would if I lived south of the border.

OP, if you are earning 200k a year but haven’t been able to afford to go abroad for a decade, I fear you are far worse at money management than you accuse the SG of being!

The OP is talking utter rubbish, if that amount of extra income tax is accurate then they earn an absolute fortune and presumably have the means to live anywhere in Scotland they want, it is not all run down.

Plus I question the knowledge of anyone who thinks that Edinburgh is the most expensive place to buy property outside London.

Apart from the obvious places like Oxford, Cambridge and the like, pretty much most of the nicer places in the south east have higher prices that Edinburgh, also many not as nice ones.

I mean would someone living in a huge house in a nice area of Edinburgh really swap it for a more expensive equivalent in a place like Chelmsford just to save a few thousand in tax?

Obviously the extra tax payments are a pain but on balance I still believe we get better value for money here on lots of other things, some people may disagree, but I suspect those people won’t take it any further than making dodgy posts highlighting their poor maths/financial skills on Mumsnet.

No of course not but tax in relation to other family specific factors might make someone decide to move.

@carolledout

I genuinely think people are over blowing the higher tax.

Unless you earn well into the 6 figures it would take a long time to offset the costs (both social and financial) of moving to England.

Stamp Duty alone would make the argument to stay quite compelling.

Sure it is a factor in deciding where to live, but a much smaller one than family ties, culture, lifestyle, access to outdoors and weather.

A small amount of tax makes very little difference to most people.

Just an excuse for a moan.

I tend to agree that's why we're here -
although I do just think some people get to a tipping point - if you're selling in central Ed and moving to England your buyer has the high stamp duty costs.

In general, stamp duty is a tax that holds people back from seeking better paid jobs and a crap thing really. A land value tax would be better...

Yes abolishing stamp duty is seen as the very first step in improving productivity and boosting growth. Encourage people to move for the right job.

I would say more often than not high earners (anyone over £100k) doesn’t live in the community they grew up in, doesn’t live near their parents etc as they have moved to develop their career. These are the people most likely to move, and the high tax environment here encourages it.

@Easypeelersareterrible Can you do me a favour and explain why you think the tax environment is that different that it would encourage people to move who wouldn’t move for their career otherwise?

I’m in an industry that’s very urban focussed, the highest paid place for jobs like these is London, I’d earn slightly less in Manchester or Birmingham but around the same, London is the only place where the earnings would raise significantly.

But property prices alone would cancel that out, to stay in an area close to the that which I live in now would be at least 3x as much for something much smaller.

This is the mistake people make when comparing I think, they look at central Edinburgh prices then compare them to areas around London that don’t really compare.

You can get a large house in the best areas in Edinburgh for less than a million, with all the benefits that being in the middle of the country’s cultural capital has.

For the same price/size around London you’ll be in a nondescript commuter town in the arse end of nowhere with all the cultural capital of an empty Asda bag.

A House in the best areas in London would cost millions, which most people will never have.

You’re right that higher earners are more mobile but they have always flocked to London for career reasons, it’s that they value more, not a few percent tax.

I deal with several hundred property purchases a year, many of whom are higher earners in East Ren/Glasgow/Edinburgh and have never encountered one that’s moving to other areas of the UK because of tax, Dubai/Saudi yes, but not the UK.

It just doesn’t make financial sense.

Absolutely this. My firm has an office in Edinburgh and the obvious disparity in the housing and general lifestyle affordability of colleagues there and in London is obvious. Comparing the cost of ‘a flat’ across both cities is meaningless. As you say, a family flat in a lovely bit of Edinburgh is comparable to a one bedroom one in a good bit of zone 2/3.

To expand on my last point, for anyone comparing Edinburgh to London.

You would assume that an exceptionally high earner in the country would live somewhere like this.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/154940339

A beautiful detached home within walking distance of all Edinburgh’s attractions, restaurants, good schools, Parks and cultural venues.

It’ll probably sell for a smidge over £1.5m

Now in London you could get these for the same price.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/153573758

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/154967573

Now there’s nothing wrong with Ealing or Enfield but they’re miles from the exciting parts of London and are more comparable to living in a normal suburban town like Bathgate/Erskine than in a capital city.

If you wanted an equivalent house in the city proper like the Morningside one then you’d be paying this. (£18m)

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/153748646

Which is exactly the reason no one is trading a nice life in Edinburgh for a lifestyle like this in London, very few can afford it.

The choice of being a big fish in Edinburgh or a small suburban fish in London.

Now obviously there are other places than London but given the fact the salaries are much of a muchness and property prices are generally higher then for the overwhelming majority it won’t be worth the upheaval.

So for all the bluster very few will actually leave, for those who do there are either other drivers and they are using it as an excuse or they have negligible brain activity

@Warmwoolytights Exactly, the ironic thing is that for all this grandstanding almost all of the movement I’ve seen between London and Edinburgh over the past decade is people coming south to north, especially in banking/legal.

Always so they can have a better more affordable lifestyle.

Also never heard any of them complain about the tax difference.

There are other places to live than London in England. If I moved I would not be moving to Greater London!

Post covid we don’t have to live in big cities. Yorkshire dales, Northumbria, Lake District. Where can you get a big house in a nice part of Edinburgh for under £1m?

Well, if you accept that it’s very very normal to live in a flat there (often 4/5 bedrooms and multiple floors) then there are many for under £1m in central Edinburgh.

@tolerable I agree Central Scotland has NEVER looked so bad.

I can only assume from this that you are very young. Otherwise, you must have completely forgotten how utterly grim the 70s/80s/90s were. The unemployment, deprivation, and slum housing of my youth are all gone now. Remember the air pollution? That’s been massively improved. But, most of all, and maybe this didn’t directly impact you, the levels of territorial gang violence that occurred across every town and city in central Scotland have gone. Boys from any housing scheme could not travel across the city without fear of being attacked, stabbed or slashed. When was the last time you saw a young adult male with ‘chib marks’ on his face?

Yes, shops have closed across the high streets, but this is happening across Europe. Councils have to balance spending between social care and amenities. But no one over 25 can honestly say that Scotland hasn’t massively improved since the early 2000s. Unless, of course, you’ve never set foot in a housing scheme. You would remember the horrible, damp, cold flats that are now fortunately gone.

Maybe parts of Scotland are not to the liking of the high rate taxpayers, but it's pretty good for the rest of us.

You must be on a whopping salary.

I earn £105K in Scotland and pay an extra £4k in tax.

I get the point you are making but if you are earning enough to be paying an extra £7k in tax you can afford it. You can afford to live somewhere nicer and probably private schooling too.

or you’ve done your sums wrong.

If your kids will go to uni stay in Scotland!! Free in Scotland

Except they’ll struggle to get into a Scottish university because places are now limited on account of the fact the SG pays only £1800 per year towards their course. Foreign students are needed to subsidise . 🤷‍♀️
DS went to uni in England and had to pay full fees like everyone else.