Any other Scottish teachers sad and disappointed this week?

[tiredtiredteacher]

Year 15 in teaching and it's just getting too much.

The ASN failures are what are really getting to me. I am personally failing the most vulnerable children and there is no alternative. What can I do with a non verbal incontinent child while I'm trying to teach 24 others to read? Then there's the most aggressive, violent six year old I've ever encountered, who desperately needs psychiatric help but apparently only needs a play based curriculum- don't even get me started on freeflow.

What is it going to take? A child to die running away from school? A child to die being attacked in school?

I love my job but it is killing me.

What is it going to take?

A change of government

Agreed.

I’m so sorry. It’s the same in England. I’ve left teaching, but my children haven’t, and can’t!

Sending solidarity 🌸

Yes same here. Violence, aggression behaviour issues throughout the school and in my opinion not being dealt with and brushed under the carpet. Makes for a very stressful day teaching when you are trying to keep the rest of the class safe from another pupil. Lots of ASN pupils and just not the support we need for them. Inclusion failing everyone. 😔

Yes and yet so many 'experts' were absolutely adamant that all specialist provision had to go in the name of 'inclusion' and that a wonderful world awaited us - I think there was a very naive misconception that learning disability and psychiatric illness are not real and were mainly caused by children/people not being included in mainstream - oh dear.....

My friend's son with ASN (to the extent that his non-verbal) just started in a SEN school.

My friend had to put in a MASSIVE amount of effort to fight the council to get him into SEN school. Council we're pushing mainstream so hard, and it would have been totally inappropriate, if course a lot cheaper....

It's really sad, cost savings in the name of inclusion. Noone is a winner, not the child with SEN needs, nor their classmates, nor the staff.

When my non verbal autistic son started at primary in Scotland 15 years ago even the LA special schools were unprepared for severe disability/non verbal autism- as in the past children like him had gone to smaller more specialist provision usually in conjunction with social work funding/respite - now I hear children like him could be placed in mainstream !

now I hear children like him could be placed in mainstream

It's not even a could, sadly. It's will be placed in mainstream unless you fight and fight, as another poster mentioned.

It's a tragedy.

Yes, it's absolutely shocking but no teachers can speak out as we're not really allowed to. It's all to save money and everyone suffers. Most parents would be absolutely shocked.

All I can suggest is that parents and teachers work together to oppose the LA policy of inappropriate and unsafe 'inclusion' . Parents are given very unrealistic pictures of how LA schools will 'meet need' and are led to believe the child's interests come first ( and not finances) and that all LA teachers in Scotland are world leaders in Autism Education and that nothing is too much for them. On the other hand, schools seem to think that 'phoning mum' about any dangerous incident is the best approach - when 'mum' has no power to get a more suitable placement for her child . All complaints need to go direct to the LA Education Department and copy in Councillors, MSPs, MPs - anyone else you can think of making it clear that if this goes on a child could be run over 'escaping' from school . Although what good it will do I don't know - we asked LA management repeatedly to acknowledge in writing that we had warned them our son was not safe at school and they never would- and this was a Special Needs school but just not very experienced with severe disability/flight risk pupils !

My friends son is like this. Probably functioning at 18month old level. He starts mainstream in September. Apparently that has to fail before he goes to special school. His brother didn't go till round 7. I can't imagine how he managed in mainstream.

It's the same in England - SEN children being failed, teachers put in an impossible position, DC and teachers at risk in their own classrooms from violence, all DC's education being impacted, but it is SO difficult to get the right provision. I have friends who have had to fight tooth and nail to get the right school provision for their DC and tbh there are many parents out there who wouldn't have the resources to do so. You have to be very determined, reasonably intelligent, and have the time to educate yourself about the law and your DC's rights in order to get what your DC is entitled to and the bloody LAs will fight you to the last, because they can't afford to provide the right schooling for all the DC that need it.

And then WillowKitten had to leave school early (16) as they 'couldn't cope' due to all the issues we had told them about repeatedly at the outset and which again they wouldn't acknowledge in any way

I feel so sorry for teachers. The Scottish government are absolutely failing kids and failing teachers. Kids can behave however they want in school and the Scottish government don't allow staff to deal with (positive reinforcement behaviour policy nonsense) none of it works. Some kids need a firm no, a boundary set and zero tolerance to unacceptable behaviour for their own sake and the safety of every other child and staff member around. This isn't allowed anymore and the general behaviour of kids in school is appalling.

My oldest went through the more traditional P1 and excelled under it. My middle child regressed massively in P1 as play based learning is aimed at toddlers not P1 kids. They literally did nothing except play and DC2 went into school knowing the alphabet and number basics but forgot it all by end the year as it wasn't done. Play based learning is the biggest step back education has ever seen. I kicked up and told the school dc2 needed a teacher in P2 who actually wanted him to learn. He got one and progressed massively but I feel quite sorry for parents of kids who have no idea how behind their kids are academically because they have no experience of the older education system. I know P3 kids that can barely read and P4 kids who are at P2 level maths. This is because of "playbsed" learning.

There is a couple of big differences between Scotland and England though. The main one being EHCPs, which enable you to take the council to court to enforce provision, don’t exist in Scotland (CSPs are in no way comparable). English councils can also be fined for disability discrimination in Schools or by the LGO - they can’t in Scotland. It is not just a question of resources - the law does not offer that option.

The other is the alternative provision often simply does not exist. Not even that they exist and are full. This is partly down to geography - there isn’t the population density to support the same range of provision - but also the lack of law enabling you to fight for it. Many of the specialist provisions that do exist have made arrangements with councils not to give out offer letters so even if there was a school you cannot request it. Unlike England you cannot make a placing request to mainstream private schools, online schools or EOTAS.

SEN children have been failed by councils for years.
In 2007 my then local council tried to send a non-verbal autistic boy who was at my DD's LA nursery, with one on one support, to the local mainstream primary. Fortunately, he is a January birthday and the parents were able to defer him. They and other parents fought the council and were told that because there was no SEN provision locally, the only option for a SEN place was for these 5 year olds to travel nearly 30 miles by taxi to a unit that was increasing its number of places. The parents all fought the council, with the support of a number of councillors, and a unit opened locally in time for him to start. In the meantime, the parents had to enrol their children in their catchment mainstream school and at the first induction day, the name of the boy I knew was called out because the mainstream school was still expecting him to attend.

People keep voting SNP.

This is what happens.

And then the massive one - no permanent exclusions. No ultimate sanction. Kids are untouchable and they know it.

Teaching unions need to come up with 5 best ways to combat violent and disruptive kids, and the government should have to act on it. Currently its inclusion for bullies, and victims exclude themselves by turning to home schooling. It’s disgraceful.

But yes, idiots keep voting for the SNP.

Well said my autistic/ADHD child was absolutely terrorised by a nuerotypical child in an enhanced provision school. He was about the 7th autistic child this had happened to over a couple of years.

The school did nothing unfortunately the SNP policies made it virtually impossible to deal with this child so he was allowed to carry on terrosing kids to the point they were so traumatised and terrified to go to school. The police had to step in to stop it eventually. It should never have got to that point.

This was the main reason I didn't vote SNP in the last election. There policies allowed my disabled child to be terrosised in the one place he should have been safe. I am not surprised SNP got booted out in a lot of places in Scotland in the last election.

If they did expel them there would be nowhere for them to go now. The specialist schools, centres and services that used to support these children have all closed.

The violence in nursery has really increased. Then you have children who are on a higher staff ratio who need a special school place or an enhanced support base placement, then you get a rejection letter stating legislation that it goes against the child's rights to give them a non mainstream placement. So they get put in a mainstream class, but LA's keep reducing PSA hours and there's no support for the teacher, the child nor the other children in the class.

It's one big shit show and after 30 years in early years, I think I am done. I'm done feeling like I have failed children by not fighting hard enough for their actual right.

I'm sorry to hear this. DS (10) has just moved to private school as his class was just too much. He's one of the quiet kids left to get on with it as the teacher was so busy dealing with the carnage. Not a decision we took lightly. It feels like all kids are being failed as a result.

Agreed. But I really don’t care. Our children’s education can’t go on being ruined by these disruptive children.

It is chicken and egg though; without alternative placements they can’t be expelled, or if they are they are moved to another school - your child’s - to try again in a setting with no real difference to the one they failed in. And if they fall out of school completely then we all face the high risk of picking up the cost of them falling into crime. Those specialist placements benefit us as well as the child.

But you see this ‘well you’ll pay the cost of them falling into crime’ is no way to comfort an innocent, kind, gentle child who knows they’ll get their head kicked in again if they go into school, because the violent child is never permanently excluded. Speaking partly from experience. This attitude to our children’s safeguarding is utterly disgusting.

We need to get violence out of mainstream schooling first and foremost. And these children have a right to an education so there needs to be an alternative provision supplied. But this constant pressure to be ‘inclusive’ by asking our children to put up with daily violence is totally unacceptable.