Raising kids in Scotland (specifically Edinburgh) - your experiences please?

[IAlwaysTellTheTruthEvenWhenILie]

Hi everyone,

I'm from Edinburgh, born and raised there. I'm 35 now and I left at 21 to go abroad with uni and I ended up staying. In the last 14 years, I've only lived in Scotland for one year. So I can imagine it'll be different to the Scotland I left.

Now I have two children (4 years and 17 months), I have a strong desire to move back "home". I miss my family, I miss friendly people on the street, I miss my "culture" and knowing how to fit in, making friends. That sense of "belonging" - sounds a bit corny I know but I can't really explain in another way. Christmas parties, guising, making a sarcastic light-hearted joke and people laugh instead of looking at me like I'm weird...

I'm in Germany. Healthcare is fantastic (my kids get an appt with the paediatrician the day I call, operations done quickly, you just go to specialists yourself), lower crime rate, very easy to live an outdoors lifestyle - we're constantly at new parks, woods, outdoor swimming pools etc. we have four seasons here in Bavaria - hot summers and snowy winters but I just feel I don't fit socially. Friends that I make are usually expats as Germans are so hard to connect to. Expats then usually leave. It can feel so lonely. I have great friends but they're not here. I have no one to call on. Dh's family is 5 hours away and only his mum is involved with the kids regularly. In Scotland, we have 4 older family members who love the kids and would take them any time, plus my 3 siblings (2 of which show lots of interest in their nephews).

I'm sitting here again for the 3rd time in a year debating moving back.

Could I please ask what it's like raising your kids in Scotland (or Edinburgh specifically)? How's healthcare? How's school life? Bullying? Socially? Financially? Weather?

I'm worried I have my rose tinted glasses on so it would be helpful to hear personal experiences. I don't want to give up what is essentially a comfortable lifestyle here if it's not what I'm picturing anymore.

Thanks everyone

I'm mean, I read your post and am off to research jobs in bavaria if that answers your question.
The weather has been particularly rubbish this year so that might be clouding my judgement though. Edinburgh does definitely have lots of green spaces and parks but none are amazing unless you're paying a rather hefty price to get in. I also returned for family and that's why we're here so u do understand your predicament. Good luck with your decision.

Healthcare is okay I think. If my kids need an appointment with an GO urgently they will get one.

Housing is a real issue. Check out rightmove but unless you have over a million to spend you are going to have to live with compromises.

Outdoor spaces are good but the weather is regularly not. You have to get used to being out in all weather.

Education in Scotland is in a truly terrible state. My experience at one of the very best state schools (think £££ catchment) is that bullying of my child has gone completely unopposed. Is part of the social policy of the SNP though.

There is a general sense of decline here. Weeds growing in residential areas. Constant strikes (it’s the bin men’s turn just now). It’s beautiful but it feels like it is going downhill…

Edinburgh is a great place to bring up kids. Very safe and lots to do.

Shortage of rental housing but lots of new builds if buying.

But you'll notice a big difference with healthcare. Lots of GP surgeries are full and not taking on new patients. Once you do get registered somewhere there are wait times to see GP, long hospital waiting list (CAHMS over 2 years)

But I guess if it's somewhere that feels like "home" then you can put up with this

I moved back to Scotland having lived in London and abroad and often wish I hadn't bothered. The political climate is vile, education is a mess, NHS Scotland is no better (possibly worse) than England and the weather is just appalling.
Being closer to family makes up for it a little but once my parents are no longer with us I will be moving on again. It's not the Scotland I remember from growing up.
Sorry if this pisses on your chips somewhat. You should obviously do what is right for you. Have you been back for an extended holiday lately to check things out?

Such a tricky decision - Edinburgh is possibly the best place in the UK for kids in my biased opinion, but….I’ve worked in Germany and, the healthcare, schools and cost of living you’d quite possibly experience a negative shock. Plus presumably you’d have bilingual children if you stay…

nobody other than you can say what the intangible value of other supportive adults is to your children - that could be huge. You have to weight the biggest factors for you.

obviously if your DC cope fine with school and don’t have many health issues, healthcare is a much less significant issue. It tops all the political polls for being in crisis around the UK.

just a word from someone who has been an expat and moved back, relatives often say wistful things about the help you could get if you lived closer, but that can evaporate when you find out that they can’t do Wednesday pick up as that clashes with a hobby, and ooooh Friday that’s a bit tricky too. Oh is it half term? We’re away that week etc!

I think a lot of it will depend on your budget and what sort of area of Edinburgh you’re able to afford. That will impact eg schools as there are great state schools but that obviously impacts housing prices in a good catchment area. Personally I love living here and think there is much better green space than I had where I lived before - we can cycle to Portobello for the beach, drive to the Pentlands in 20 mins and we have the Meadows and Holyrood a short walk away. Weather - I mean it’s not the best but it’s much drier than eg Glasgow/anywhere else on the West. And it’s not as hot as SE which for me is a positive. I lived in London for many years and summers were becoming unbearable with several weeks of 30+ degrees.

I am afraid I agree with PPs. Relocated back “home” after 17 years in England and I am sorry to say I wished we had stayed put. Schools and the NHS are in a poor state compared to where we lived previously and it does feel as though Scotland is in decline. I think it would depend on whether you could afford a home in a good catchment area or private schooling and also prepared to take out private health insurance.

One thing to be aware of as a possibility. Labour are putting 20% VAT on independent school fees. In somewhere like Edinburgh which has a higher rate of privately educated kids, this will eventually push up house prices in the catchments of schools that are deemed to be “the best”. I know views on this differ! But as parents paying school fees get squeezed out of the independent sector they may look to move into the catchments of schools like Boroughmuir & the Royal High, which will push up prices in areas that are already expensive.

its just something to be aware of. Good luck with your decision!

Well I love living in Edinburgh with my family but then I’ve only lived in London and Edinburgh since I was a mum (many other places as a young adult). Housing is expensive but not London expensive. We live in a “mixed” area. Not the best but not the worst. Older area not new build. I’m very sceptical of the new build areas ever getting the amenities they need.
Our primary school has been excellent and we’re happy with the secondary we will go to next year. Our gp is good but aware wider nhs is struggling desperately and we use a private dentist. We spend quite a lot of time in the hills or at the beach. Weather is not great obviously and dark in winter but love the light summer nights.

Quickly popping on to say I really appreciate all the replies so far and I'll reply properly when the children are sleeping

I have loved raising my kids in Edinburgh, but it does feel like a lot has changed for the worse in recent years.

The good bits of having a young family here is that there's so much to do: museums, events, festivals, so much lovely green space around. My dc have had positive experiences in state education but I do feel there's been a lot of luck there. I have heard teachers despair at the lack of consequences for bad behaviour in school and the curriculum does in part feel dumbed down.

Health care- we can always get a same day gp appointment if we need it, but seeing a specialist can take a very long time unless urgent.

Weather - I like a cooler northern climate tbh so it suits me here.

I see massive differences between my home EU country and Scotland in terms of public service, healthcare (forget about specialists for kids... I pay privately for what I can incl. dentist, mental health, physio etc. ) and education, with Scotland increasingly behind - it's much worse than 10-12 years ago. I'd also look into childcare options/availability and costs and housing market too.

I'd book longer holiday in Scotland (preferably in winter!) and take time to make a decision.

We moved from small town Bavaria to Edinburgh a few years back. I don’t regret it!

The things I miss are the lovely playgrounds, cycle friendliness and car free areas. The kids could have so much more independence in Germany as the traffic was much lower and less aggressive. Edinburgh really has a car problem.

I would not go back to Germany though. We never managed to fit in and all of our friends were always international. Our area had no ethnical diversity. Not saying that Edinburgh is very diverse, but at least there is some.
Maybe it would have gotten better with time and once kids were in school. I don’t know. DH couldn’t speak much German so it would have always been an issue. Edinburgh I found was very welcoming and though we have no roots here it was easy to fit in!

I love living in Edinburgh. My 2 DCs (mid and late teens) love it here and tell me they are so glad they didn’t live where I grew up at their ages. My lovely German friend down the road also loves it here.

My DCs are not at one of the high performing state schools but the one they go to has been very good for them, doing well and they are adamant when I ask them about bullying and classroom disruption that ithey are not aware of it being an issue - they’d be nervous to be around much as that so I do believe them.

I guess it depends where you are moving from. Where you currently are sounds like a high standard of living.

We moved from a grotty bit of London to near Edinburgh. Weather is better in a funny way - we seem to get just as much rain as we did in London but London summers were getting to be something else and the houses aren’t designed for it. It does rain here but I’ve found the past couple of winters fairly mild and if it rains in the morning it has cleared by the afternoon or vice Versa.

schooling - I find the educational standards and expectations were higher at our little state school in London and it wasn’t a particularly special school. I do find it concerning but I’m keeping an eye on the kids attainment and will tutor later on if necessary.

parks and public spaces - 100% cleaner and better maintained than our London neighbour parks. Playgrounds better in London though, more imaginative and more investment.

crime/social issues, not been a problem here so far.

Health - we’ve only needed one GP appointment so quite lucky and got it the afternoon of the day we rang.

I did more or less exactly what you are contemplating 20 years ago. No regrets. I don’t believe there is a magical "right" choice, but you need to follow your heart. The situation is changing fast, but our kids benefited from fantastic university educations at low cost compared to England or abroad. The NHS is in a right state, but that’s for the whole of the UK.

I lived in Germany and moved back to Scotland a first years ago just before I had my first DC. What would said about the social side and struggling to make friends in Germany really resonates with me and was one of the reasons I never considered staying there for the long haul, most of my friends were international and now that I'm back in Scotland I really do value the friendliness, the banter, how chatty people are and how easy it is to make friends and get to know people here.

However, when it comes to standards of living I honestly think Germany wins hands down. I had most of my maternity care for DC1 there, it was exceptional. What I experienced here with the NHS was shockingly poor in comparison. Add to that having to wait months or years to see a specialist, or if you need an operation, healthcare here is just awful compared to Germany. Then the difficulties getting an NHS dentist on top of that. Extortionate childcare fees. Horrendous problems with bullying in scottish schools. It just seems that we can't get the basic and most important things right (healthcare, childcare, social care, housing, education), it seems to be getting worse and worse.

Not meaning to sound doom and gloom, I genuinely love living here - it's home and I love the people, the landscapes, the culture. But if you're thinking of moving back best to do so with your eyes open to all of this. Feel free to PM

For balance, I would say the healthcare for birth in Germany wasn’t all that great. There were a lot of checkups and tests. My maternity clinic had tons of options for extras and no real advice about which ones were a good idea for me. The care felt very interventionist and militant and my birth was awful. The midwifes, especially the more senior ones, were very much in charge and no dissent was tolerated. And I also felt that there was a bit of nationalism at play (I’m what’s considered Eastern European and have an accent). Comped to this my birth with the NHS was much much better. They found an issue the German clinic missed despite the many blood tests until it was too late to fix.

They were very good with the baby care and I felt supported and appointments were plentiful. Still had to pay for one of the meningitis vaccinations, despite the private German healthcare covering alternative therapies like homeopathy.

I think the NHS does very well with the little it has, whereas I found the German system does not so well despite tons of appointments and tests. And it is very interventionist, with not so much to show for it in my case. Make of that what you will.

I can't compare as I've never lived anywhere else, we live in a suburb town just outside Edinburgh.

healthcare? Never had an issue. Always get appointments for any of us, seen quickly when we have minor accidents. My dp has a long term health condition and got access to diagnosis and specialists quickly, plus physio etc. Ds has an ongoing injury and got an MRI with only a short wait and immediate physio.

How's school life? Scottish education is not what it used to be and I've pretty disappointed in what they are getting at the moment. My ds will be fine they're bright and have home support but I see huge gaps on basic learning and knowledge that was missed in early primary dur to covid and it's never been recovered. Education is widely under resourced and standards are low.

Bullying? Never had a problem, not to say it doesn't exist just we haven't experienced it.

Socially? It is what you make it. We have a wonderful community with as many opportunities for socialising as you like, clubs and sports etc. Although we tend to keep to ourselves.

Financially? Cost of living is high. But me and dp are fairly low-average earners and we have a nice life, our housing costs are low, we can run two cars, we have occasional family days out and holidays. We don't struggle but have to think twice about certain luxuries. We don't eat out as much as we used to as it's expensive now.
There is vast poverty and deprivation in Scotland which makes me very sad, it doesn't need to be like this. But unless you are living it yourself you probably won't be exposed to it much.

Weather? It's shite! It's Scotland. We had our one day of summer in April.

I love to travel, but I love Scotland. It's a great place to raise a family.

If you can afford a nice house/flat in a nice area, private health care and private education go for it.

Just don't rely on the state for anything.

I’m in a similar position to @Invisimamma above. We live in a commuter town near Edinburgh and it’s honestly a great place to bring up a family from our point of view. All the benefits of a city v nearby (think 15 mins away on the frequent trains) but also a cosier community feel that’s great for bringing up kids. My kids schools are good and seem to deal with bullying issues swiftly, we can get urgent GP appointments when needed and our neighbourhood is safe enough for me to allow my kids out to the park to play without adult supervision from the age of ten or so.
Good luck with whatever choice you make - nowhere is perfect (sadly!) - maybe identify the 2 or 3 dealbreakers in your dream lifestyle and start there. Where you are now certainly seems pretty good! Do you think there would be more opportunities for integration over the coming years?

I have two DC and have moved quite a bit (including outside the UK, and a very long stint in London) before settling in Edinburgh.

My two pennies:

1. It's an absolutely lovely place to bring up kids in many ways -- I like Scottish culture, the ease of getting around town on the bus, and the many things to do with small children (mine love the museum and million play parks)
2. If I had the cash, there are some child-friendly places in England with high performing schools and better weather that I might prefer (e.g. Bath)
3. Not sure what you do for work, but options in my industry are quite limited here and I'd struggle to replace like-for-like income if I lost my current gig.
4. I am very worried about the UK economy and future prospects. If Scotland ever went independent, we would move as I think it would further reduce opportunity and strain what services the State could afford to provide.
5. Weather has been absolute shite this past year. Gray and drizzly nearly every day when I pick up my children.
6. NHS is suffering in general; I was disappointed at how bad digital services are in Scotland vs England (e.g. no NHS app here and my GP doesn't do anything digitally so prescrips take 5-7 business days to fill)

The job situation is one thing to note. I earn a fraction of my pre-redundancy wage as getting a similar job to the one I had in the same field would have required a move to London and this was generally accepted amongst my peers in my place I worked at the time. However, I was in the financial position where my wage could take a hit and I chose to take a different path post-redundancy which I think I am happier with overall. DH could probably replicate his role though so it’s not a given and I may well have been able to get somewhere closer to where I had been if I been prepared to make different choices.

Hi everyone,
sorry for taking so long to reply to you all. I just wanted to thank everyone for sharing their experiences. The replies are basically a reflection of what's going on in my head... a mixed bag. I've just had family visiting and have such a heavy sadness at them leaving, it just makes me want to move back tomorrow. I know that's not practical though.

@Iwanttoraceacrosstheworld can I ask, has it been worth it, moving home for family? This is my biggest motivator. For myself, for my relationship with my husband (to have the support), and for my kids to grow up with extended family. Out here, it's just me, Dh and the kids.

@Greenismyfav thanks for your honesty. Sorry to hear about bullying, this is a big worry of mine. Especially as my eldest is such a sensitive wee chap. Housing, I've been looking and come across some houses in the areas where my family live for 300,000. That's something we could afford.

@CardinalCat I appreciate the honest negative opinions too. We've been back twice in the summer for 4 week stretches, and 3 weeks at Christmas. I do love it when I'm back but it's not 'real' life iykwim. I love being back and I feel a sadness at going home as I feel so lonely without my family nearby. It just feels very emotionally 'safe' at home. I think I'm realising how vulnerable I feel out here with no family.

@Solihullproject basically everything you mentioned is why I'm so reluctant. My family just being here was an eye opener. Constantly commenting on how 'cheap' everything is really made me realise how expensive it is back home.

@Herculesthescot one of the schools you mentioned was my old high school and an area I'd be looking to move to, so thanks for giving me the heads up. That'll need to be thought about too.

@Callisto1 the fitting in that you speak of is one of my biggest issues. I've never found it so difficult in my life to make friends and build a community here. It's very isolating. And I've been here 10 years. I just don't think I can live like that forever. I have to say though, I have always experienced very good healthcare. Also when giving birth. Hence why I'm reluctant to let that go.

@Tinybigtanya I ended up saying this the other day. I'm starting to realise there probably isn't a right choice. We can have a rubbish life in Germany and a rubbish life in Scotland. At the same time, we could have a good life in both. Seeing as I can't tell the future or control how things will turn out, we'll just have to go with what we feel in the moment.

@LadyMcLadyface thank you so much for this. Every single thing you have written is what I'm worrying about / what I miss / how I feel. I might take you up on the offer to PM if that's still OK. I still feel so conflicted. If I were just thinking of myself, I'd move. But I just don't want to make the wrong decision for my boys.

@Badgerstriper quite possibly when my eldest starts school, we would have more chance of integration. Or maybe even Kindergarten which he's due to start in September. He's just turned 4 and It'll be the first time he's in nursery 5 days a week and with 15 other children. Thereafter, school. When I start working again too will probably be a big one.

Job situation is unclear for me. Fertility issues kind of took over my life for 4 years and my career completely changed. I was thinking of training to become a teacher if we moved to Scotland but again, I'm hearing teachers are needed on one hand, then the other, that there are no jobs.

Thanks again everyone. You've all given me a lot to think about. Next week, DH and I are putting time aside to discuss it all: Housing, jobs, healthcare, if we did then when? Year trial? what's more important to us? Family nearby or better healthcare? etc.

I’m currently on holiday in Bavaria and finding the price of everything is pretty much exactly what I would expect pay in Edinburgh, sometimes more expensive. Some of the own brand chocolate in Lidl was slightly cheaper but that’s about it. OTOH the prices of everything when we had our New York holiday last year were eyewatering!