Cancel nursery P1 (Scotland) deferred place after starting the deferred nursery year

[thoughtfuldad]

Hi All,

Dad of 5-year-old here in Edinburgh. I was wondering if any of you could help. We have a 5-year-old who we deferred entry to P1 (we felt it was the right thing to do at the time and was advised to do so by the council-run nursery teachers for social and emotional reasons but we were told academically he was fine). He is a start of October 2018 baby. But now at the end of November 2023, it feels like he is more than ready for P1 (he has developed a lot in the last six months).

Also, he is not making any friends this year in his nursery. Every morning he doesn't want to go to nursery and it's a huge struggle to get him there. The other children all seem and look much younger than him and have baby-like faces and just seem generally much younger than him, I think he is now the oldest in his nursery. He doesn't seem to be able to connect with any nursery children this year. His nursery best friends (3 boys) from last year who were roughly the same age as him all moved on to P1 Primary and now it feels (and looks) like he is too old and mature for the kids in his nursery.

He desperately wants to go to "big boy" school himself and keeps talking about it and wants to move on to Primary school and wear school uniform clothes. He is technically very capable and loves building Lego robots, working with leavers, and gears and electronic circuits already. My specialist areas are Mathematics, Physics, and Computer Science so I am able to support and encourage him in those areas. His language skills are very advanced and he can easily hold conversations with older children and adults, and in fact spends his time with older children in the community garden that we have behind the house.

My wife and I are thinking it is best to try and move him to P1 for January 2024 (the start of the second term in P1 in his catchment school). I am thinking that if we leave him in nursery for this academic year then in Primary school he would be about 1.5 years older than the youngest child in his year group and on average probably a year older than most of his peers which might be too big of an age gap and prevent him from connecting and making friendships with his peers as especially even now he seems so advanced in certain areas.

We will chat with the nursery before making a final decision but does anyone know what the procedures are for canceling the funded P1 deferred place at a council-run nursery during the academic year and trying to get their child into P1 Primary for a January start?

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

Have you spoken to the school about whether there is a place for him in the P1 class?

Or whether they feel it’s appropriate for him to move into the P1 class having missed 4 months of P1?

I’d start there tbh

Ooooh.... as a P1 teacher I'd be wary. My initial thoughts were absolutely not, but he does sound as though he has really outgrown nursery.

I genuinely don't know the technical ins and outs, but here's my practical advice.

You will not get the same welcome to school as he would get in August. He will be expected to conform to the needs of class pretty much immediately. Practise carrying a tray with his lunch, looking after all of his belongings, asking to go to the toilet in plenty of time.

Can he read yet and does he know any letter sounds?

This is really why people have to think more carefully about deferral than they are imo.

Most state schools in Scotland only have one intake per year, so I don't see how you could enact a January start to P1 (although I wait to be corrected on that one). As a former specialist Early Years teacher, I would say let it be. In all my years of experience, not one parent ever came to me regretting having deferred entry to P1. Over the years, several came to me saying they wished they hadn't ignored my advice to defer. There are many many ways in which you can stretch your child without sending him to school. I'd speak to his Nursery about the issue, and see if they can suggest ways he an be helped to feel "grown up" within his current context. For example, he could be helping to support younger pupils (a common strategy for encouraging metacognitive growth)

In all my years of experience, not one parent ever came to me regretting having deferred entry to P1

In years gone by neurotypical October born children would never have been deferred, so this doesn't apply any longer....

My P1 child's class has learnt all letter sounds in the jolly phonics system and about 10 sight words (e.g. you, the) and the teacher is now working with them on reading basic books independently. In numeracy the class have learnt all numbers up to at least 30 (some kids know up to 100) and they are doing basic addition with number lines this week.

If your DC hasn't had any exposure to phonics or basic numeracy like this at nursery it will be a huge drop in the deep end to join P1 in January. Maybe you could look at home schooling or a tutor to supplement your DCs nursery learning and then speak to the local school about your options once your child has basic literacy and numeracy at P1 level.

An October born child would never have been deferred under previous systems, it was often Jan/Feb born only.

As a reception teacher in England, a child joining my class in January would have A LOT to catch up on. We have completed phase 2 in phonics and the vast majority of my class are reading using those sounds. But it’s not just academically, we spend a good deal of time in the first half term reinforcing rules, boundaries and routines. England you can only defer if you are a summer born child as most winter babies are far too old to join the class the year after!

I'm very surprised you were allowed to do this as he has an October birthday, around here it's Jan & Feb birthdays only. He'll be 2 months off being 7 when he starts P1, in a class with kids who could be as young as 4 and a half.
As has been suggested, I would try to get him in to school now, or his education could suffer. I don't see how the council could say no to this, if you moved to a different local authority area it would be permitted.

Sorry, that should have said two months off being 6

My son is Feb 2018 and has just started P1. I would say absolutely leave him in nursery. The progress since Aug has been dramatic in terms of expectations and routines. A new start in Jan wouldn’t have the same introduction.
Also the Oct/Nov/Dec 2018 boys in the class are really struggling, I don’t think there are any Jan/Feb kids who didn’t defer. There is 28 in the year and 5 of them are already 6. I think you would be doing him a disservice being young for the year group and missing 1/3 of the school year.

@Coolblur The rules have changed recently. The last few years any child not 5 in Aug can defer., not just Jan& Feb. There has been a big shift.

I can't comment about how much catching up he may or may not have, but my child's P1 class had a new student start last week who has never been in any form of education (nursery or school). So, it can be done.

My ds1 is 17, November birthday, and one of his pals is a full year older as he was deferred (October birthday), so it's been happening for a decent while.

Op, I'd leave it. No, it's not ideal just now but you've no idea what the impact will be joining mid school year whereas if you wait then deferral is fairly common and the children don't bat an eye ime at the range of ages in the year.

It's just 4 months that he would have to cram in the whole of P1 which would be hard.

They are incorrect. New rules apply now in Scotland where you can defer entry if the child does not have their 5th birthday before the start of school in August.

But the school age group year runs differently in Scotland! The older half of the year are already 5 when they go into P1 and the intake ranges from 4.5-5.5 rather than those who’ve just turned 4 into England.

I'd be chatting with nursery first about how you and they can stretch him so he isn't feeling bored in that setting, rather than jumping in head first mid way through P1. They cram in a lot of learning! At my DC's school, P1s would have between 8 and 10 pieces of homework a week, in addition to everything they learn in class.

It was the nursery's advice you followed, so now they need to be supportive and demonstrate how it was the best decision for your child.

I have an October born and a February born. Neither were deferred although the October DC probably would have benefited as we suspect they are ND

Also the Oct/Nov/Dec 2018 boys in the class are really struggling

This is the sort of generalisation that is pushing people to defer and it’s so untrue. This is not my experience at all.

I didn't realise things have changed recently. DS is still in primary school, when he started a few years ago it was only Jan and Feb birthdays that could defer.

Surely the new system is a bit daft. If only those born March-July have to start in August, and those born in the other 7 months can defer, that could potentially lead to classes with nearly 19 months between the oldest and youngest. It could start to get a bit ridiculous. How are teachers meant to teach such a wide age range to the same standard?

So we are a deferral this year as well (Jan birthday) my DS was the only one who stayed (private nursery) and I did begin to doubt myself a lot!
We also had problems that he said he had no friends etc. We raised it with nursery few weeks ago and it's made a huge difference they have really focused on helping him foster new friendships.

My DS has also come on a huge amount (writing and learning to read which he wants to do) but I see that as he's had the opportunity to and we didn't just make the decision based on P1 we made the decision on his whole academic time and the ability to cope with exam stress etc when older.

You know your child best but I would start with speaking to nursery first about your concerns regarding friendships.
There are also alot of Jan and Feb deferrals I think it's about half which even if no other parent took the Sept-Dec deferral only puts him 2/3 months older.

It's always been the case that no child under 5 has to start school.

The difference is getting nursery funding for the extra year. So in essence you could always defer any child who was 5 Sept onwards but they wouldn't necessarily get a nursery place so for most parents it wasn't really a choice, it was school or nothing.

My DC were July and August birthdays so never applied to me.

It's not a good idea, honestly.
Consider changing nursery for a stimulating pre school 6 months and get him into P1 in August. The class could be full & It's pretty much impossible to have a good outcome joining P1 in January, he'd always be behind and developmentally that's really important. There will be nurseries with his age range as peers, go that option. Both of mine were deferred and it hugely benefitted and I'm a P1 teacher in Scotland.

@ihavetaughtforalongtime the law in Scotland has always allowed parents to defer if child turns 5 after start of August term. Agree that few parents opt to defer October births, but the option has always been there.

@Leftphalange100 it's not a new rule. it has been the case at least since I started teaching in the 1970s. However, some schools prefer not to tell parents about it, although if you dig deep on LEA websites the info has always been there.

You could do it but only the Jan/Feb birthdays got funded places. Now everyone who's not 5 at the start of term can get a funded place.

This. There will many, many more children in this position over the coming years.

My DD is Oct birthday and now in p2. We were told we could defer if we wanted, but they didn’t advise it as she was ready and we agreed and it was definitely the right choice for her.

She is in a mixed p1/p2 class (small rural school) and our neighbour’s DS is almost exactly the same age as her, about a week younger, and they chose to defer so he is in p1 now. They think it was the right choice for him socially and emotionally, but of course he is older than some of the kids in P2. It doesn’t really seem to be an issue, there’s a lot of cross over in ages due to the deferring.

My DS is a June birthday so no thoughts of deferring, but I’d have seriously considered it if he was younger in the year group.

I don’t think I’d put my kid in p1 in January. I don’t think it’s fair on him, he’ll have missed so much. I’d work on improving his nursery experience and finding material that interests him. Maybe even move nursery if that’s possible?