Moving a child from England (GCSEs) to Scottish Highers

[SingleDad2kids]

Hello. I am panning to move to Scotland with my eldest daughter in 2024 after she has finished her GCSEs in England. Due to her DOB (Dec. 2007), I have been told by a school that she would not go into S5 but S6 instead.
This concerns me for a few reasons. She wants to go to Edinburgh Uni but the requirements are ABBB at the end of S5 or AAAB at the end of S6. This uptick in requirements might mean my daughter has an impossible hill to climb if the Uni classes her as being an S6 graduate when she has, technically, missed / skipped a year at school. I am wondering if anybody knows if Universities will class her as 'end of S6' or if they'll accept she has only done 1 year of Scottish Highers.
The other option is to leave her with her mum and let her sit her A-levels in England and then come and live with me in Edinburgh after that in 2026. She will be living with me at least 80 days a year if I move without her anyway due to holidays etc. And as I will be living in Edinburgh and she will come to live with me, she will be 'ordinarily resident' in Scotland at that time. She won't have finished her schooling in Scotland but will be UK resident for over 3 years and 'ordinarily resident' in Scotland when her Uni course starts as she will have been living with me permanently from June 2026 to her course start date in October 2026.
There are lots of posts online saying you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years to be ordinarily resident. But that rule has changed. It's 3 years living in UK and 'ordinarily resident' in Scotland.
So I either move to Scotland with her in 2024 and she might be put up a year at school and then be scuppered getting into Uni because she will be classed as S6 and need the higher grades. Or she continues to live in England and do her A levels coming to live with me in 2026. But then I am worried she won't be classed as 'ordinarily resident' because she finished school in England, turned 18 already, and it could be viewed that she purely came up for the free Uni. Which isn't the case as she and I want to move up to Edinburgh in 2024 and would only hold off if it meant that would damage her chances of getting the lower S5 entrance requirements. I have elderly parents who live in Edinburgh, hence the need to move back home.
I am aware that National 5s are harder than GCSEs but she should be ok if she focusses for a year.
Any help or advice is really appreciated. Thanks in advance. JC

Thank you for this long reply. I completely agree that there are other wonderful Scottish uni opportunities. Personally, I applied for Edinburgh, St Andrews and Aberdeen back in 1994. My parents said to do it just to see what they say. Then I found I achieved the grades for all 3 at the end of S5 so that was me off to my first choice, Edinburgh. Your son sounds like a really bright guy. I’m so happy for you both

Thanks. Yes, I have been focussing on the other two schools mainly because of location - kids walking into school and being able to safely walk into the old town to see their grandparents and uncles.
I went to Firrhill for 2 years in the start of the 1990’s. My parents then took me out and sent me to Watson’s cause of lack of discipline at Firrhill. It was a bit rough back then.
I should really think about those other options you mention.
what’s the deal with catholic schools? I don’t think she or I would mind her going to one. But I know nothing about their performance. I think St Thomas is one near the old royal infirmary. That would be a potential option. I just don’t know the other schools’ reputations etc.
thanks for your comment.

My DC has found Tynecastle to be very good. Central location and has good pupil support. Doesn’t come up on the lists here but my DC has done extremely well academically. They do have waiting lists for some years now though.

because of the much superior Scottish examination process

Hollow laugh…

St Thomas is indeed beside the old Royal Infirmary site. It gets a good reputation academically. The league tables are easy to find online.

@SaffronSpice

I'm afraid I tend to agree.

The curriculum for excellence has been a big disappointment (regarding my two DSs) in comparison with their English cousins of the same ages working through the English curriculum.

My elder son gained a place to study law at Oxford in 2019 (from a Scottish state school), when the university had a big push on admitting Scottish students. He felt a little out of his depth and spent the first two terms playing catch up with his English counterparts for essay techniques, etc. Higher English did not offer good preparation for this. His law tutor told him this was not unexpected for Scottish students.

My younger son is actually first year at Edinburgh Uni studying computer science. He is lucky to achieve an offer as it's one of their most competitive courses. Many of his school pals were rejected for various courses at Edinburgh Uni although they exceeded the standard offers.

It seems that Flag Plus applicants get first dibs on many of the places which leaves those from average backgrounds towards the back of the line.

Even the Scottish Government were forced to agree there are issues with the Scottish exams. Hence the Hayward Review. Though I am not convinced by the outcome of that as it didn’t seem to address the very prescribed nature of the current exams which favours those able to remember blocks of text and then regurgitate that in exams.

Very interesting.
Well, the English system is restrictive. A levels over two years. Limited choices with 3 subjects being the general number taken. Minimum requirements for Edinburgh uni appear to be harder for A level students, in my honest opinion.
plus Scottish students have two chances to get the required grades whereas it’s just the one chance in England.
So i’m sticking to my belief the Scottish system is better!! Haha.

When I went to Uni (over 40 years ago ) , I struggled with the essays that were part of my French course - looong before CfE

As I'd gone from S5, I'd never done any analysis of French literature - and although I was at a Scottish Uni, which technically assumes entry from S5, it was St Andrews, where the majority of students were English and very few from S5, so the lecturers started from the assumption that everyone had done A levels or SYS (showing my age )

Fortunately English had been by far my best subject (even if I didn't want to study it ), so I was able to transfer my essay-writing and analysis skills Plus I'd been abroad (in NZ) for 2 years, only getting back 6 months before the O Grades, so I'd had to work hard to catch up plus do a lot of independent study.

Taking a positive spin, that could be something that your dd could use to her benefit and mention in her personal statement: the fact that she'd have had to do a fair bit of independent study and work hard to get up to speed with the unfamiliar Scottish curriculum.

The flip side of two year A level courses versus one year (six month!) Highers is university courses are four years in Scotland instead of three in England. Which means, despite the fees it can work out the same or potentially even cheaper to study in England with fees, than Scotland without.

if your DD did go from A levels then she could start her course in second year at Edinburgh uni. My DC is considering that from advanced highers. Her friend’s elder sister found her first year covered a lot of areas which she had already studied in her final year of school.

Firrhill is pretty good, not rough in my experience and has a strong social sciences department. Might have changed by St Thomas's was pretty bad about 6 years ago with issues with staffing changes causing a bit of an exodus.

Remember there is an extra year at school in England so your DD will do GCSEs after 5 years of high school rather than four. It’s a strange anomaly that has arisen since school has in England has moved to starting properly at reception instead of y1.

The upshot is children often complete a broader curriculum in England for longer than in Scotland. A child born in Nov 2006 would have just sat GCSEs in England but would have just sat Highers in Scotland. Scotland then adds that year into University.

Also agree with a previous poster re moving your child around just before A levels (or any exams). They are really tough exams and she will need to be at all her lessons in the lead up to them.

I really wouldn’t worry too much now about exact courses, unis etc as she’s still young. My daughter completely changed her preferred subjects between 14 and 16. Is your daughter on course for mostly 7-9 grades? If not have a think about a wider range of unis.

Good luck. Not easy decisions.

Firrhill and St Thomas’s are both good now. They were rough in my day but I only hear great things about firrhill and I see st tam’s gets great results (though the pupils can be quite “boisterous” on the buses).

Both the English and Scottish systems have 11 years of compulsory education, followed by 2 years optional education (6 at primary followed by 7 or 5+2 at secondary schools in England and 7 + 6 in Scotland). The "anomaly" arises from the optional year of Reception. We can get into a debate about how "optional" that year is - but at least you're not supposed to be fined for absence during Reception.

It's made more complicated to compare because of the 6 month difference in cut-off dates: ds started school at 4 and sat his Highers at 16.5. Ds did S6 but was still not yet 18 when he started Uni. A friend of his wasn't 18 until the end of February of his 1st year at Uni as he hadn't been deferred - but another friend in the same school year had turned 18 at the end of November in S6 because he had legitimately been deferred

The "extra" year is supposedly more to do with the fact that you can go to Uni from S5 (as I did) plus the fact that you do a wider range of subjects in 1st year (and often end up doing your degree in a subject other than the one you applied for as you did it out of interest/to make up the necessary number of subjects and ended up really enjoying it).

In ds' experience, even though the English (A level) students and those that had done AHs in relevant subject have the option of going direct into 2nd year, very few did so.

I am so lucky to have managed to reach so many lovely helpful and informative people on here. Honestly. I expected a load of abuse but instead you’ve all been so wonderful.
I’m just a lonely, single, 46 year old bloke who is trying his best to navigate giving his kids the best futures they can have while being heart sore for Edinburgh and miraculously my eldest child asked me to move back home so I’ve come to you lot for help and nobody has been judgmental. I’m so touched by all of your help and advice.
I am genuinely so grateful and touched by all the lovely constructive comments on here.
I'm looking into St Thomas’ now too. I feel really uncomfortable with Firrhill though. Purely because I had to leave for bullying. Although I have to say, I got 100% in my entrance exam for Watson’s after leaving Firrhill, so the education side of things was second to none.
Thanks so much. Please keep the comments and suggestions coming x

Interesting. My daughter started school (Reception) in England three months before turning 5. Our understanding was that she had to be there from the January onwards. So compulsory school age was the term after her fifth birthday. She’d have started anyway but it would have been useful to have been told the right info!

We aren’t there anymore so I may not be right but I thought it was compulsory to stay in education in England until your 18th birthday now (although this can be eg an apprenticeship). I might be wrong but I’m sure I read that Scotland, Wales and NI you can leave education at 16 but England at 18. DD has a few friends still in England who are having to resit English or Maths at college.

Children can leave school in England at 16 too. You are probably getting confused with Jeremy Hunt’s plan to force kids to do maths until ages 18 (if they aren’t leaving school after their GCSEs)

“England

You can leave school on the last Friday in June if you’ll be 16 by the end of the summer holidays.
You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:

• stay in full-time education, for example at a college
• start an apprenticeship or traineeship
• spend 20 hours or more a week working or volunteering, while in part-time education or training”

https://www.gov.uk/know-when-you-can-leave-school#:~:text=You%20can%20leave%20school%20on,start%20an%20apprenticeship%20or%20traineeship

also

”It is a condition of funding for colleges, sixth forms and schools that students resit these [maths and English GCSEs] qualifications if they do not have a grade 4 (or C) already. Educational institutions can have their funding cut if they do not meet this requirement.”

“Scotland

If you turn 16 between 1 March and 30 September you can leave school after 31 May of that year.
If you turn 16 between 1 October and the end of February you can leave at the start of the Christmas holidays in that school year.”

My husband went to Firrhill in the 80's and has a very similar view of it as you do.

But it does have a good reputation now compared to the horror stories my husband shares.

I really hope you find the setting for your daughter.

Hi - I think your daughter going in to S5 is sensible. Also, in my opinion, having taught both I don’t think N5 are harder than GCSEs … probably the other way around. And as pp have said … in Scotland students start next ‘year’ at beginning of June so ideally you would want her to move as soon as GCSEs are done. Hope move goes well x

Thanks very much for that info. I’ve been trying to find a teacher who has taught both so it’s extremely reassuring to receive your message 😁

@SingleDad2kids i know this thread hasn’t been updated in a while but I came across it as I’m in a similar situation. Just wondered if you moved ur daughter and how she found the transition from gcse to highers?

I agree with both of the last comments.
Main ambition for her is Edinburgh uni.
second ambition, not paying £9k student fees in England or Scotland.

So really you're just trying to avoid paying fees? Why not just let your dad sit her A levels and apply to Edinburgh like every other student from England needs to do, rather than concocting this elaborate plan to find a loop hole to avoid the fees 🙄. I get your DD has her heart set on Edinburgh, flinging her into a new education system post GCSE isn't going to help her realise that dream.