Moving a child from England (GCSEs) to Scottish Highers

[SingleDad2kids]

Hello. I am panning to move to Scotland with my eldest daughter in 2024 after she has finished her GCSEs in England. Due to her DOB (Dec. 2007), I have been told by a school that she would not go into S5 but S6 instead.
This concerns me for a few reasons. She wants to go to Edinburgh Uni but the requirements are ABBB at the end of S5 or AAAB at the end of S6. This uptick in requirements might mean my daughter has an impossible hill to climb if the Uni classes her as being an S6 graduate when she has, technically, missed / skipped a year at school. I am wondering if anybody knows if Universities will class her as 'end of S6' or if they'll accept she has only done 1 year of Scottish Highers.
The other option is to leave her with her mum and let her sit her A-levels in England and then come and live with me in Edinburgh after that in 2026. She will be living with me at least 80 days a year if I move without her anyway due to holidays etc. And as I will be living in Edinburgh and she will come to live with me, she will be 'ordinarily resident' in Scotland at that time. She won't have finished her schooling in Scotland but will be UK resident for over 3 years and 'ordinarily resident' in Scotland when her Uni course starts as she will have been living with me permanently from June 2026 to her course start date in October 2026.
There are lots of posts online saying you have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years to be ordinarily resident. But that rule has changed. It's 3 years living in UK and 'ordinarily resident' in Scotland.
So I either move to Scotland with her in 2024 and she might be put up a year at school and then be scuppered getting into Uni because she will be classed as S6 and need the higher grades. Or she continues to live in England and do her A levels coming to live with me in 2026. But then I am worried she won't be classed as 'ordinarily resident' because she finished school in England, turned 18 already, and it could be viewed that she purely came up for the free Uni. Which isn't the case as she and I want to move up to Edinburgh in 2024 and would only hold off if it meant that would damage her chances of getting the lower S5 entrance requirements. I have elderly parents who live in Edinburgh, hence the need to move back home.
I am aware that National 5s are harder than GCSEs but she should be ok if she focusses for a year.
Any help or advice is really appreciated. Thanks in advance. JC

Yes, and they often come to my DCs school as it’s not as full as some of the high schools in Edinburgh so they get kids who have moved into other catchments where there just isn’t any space in their catchment school as well. Some are from the rest of the UK and some from other parts of the world. I have never heard of a 16 year old who wanted to stay on at school being refused a school place. Given the emphasis on flexibility in the exam system and all the GIRFEC chat, I don’t see why the outcome for this particular child is unlikely to be them just going into S5 to do highers.

OP, would private be an option at all? One of my old colleagues worked up here while his wife and children remained down south. Once his youngest had sat her GCSEs they moved up and she did her last couple of years at one of the local privates. I have no idea when her birthday fell but if you can afford the fees then the issues about LA funding are obviously irrelevant.

I agree that a private school and A levels may be a better option if you can afford it - give her more time to settle in before sitting the exams.

I thinking even going into S5 would be hard enough to be honest- it’s a really intense year if they’re doing 5 Highers and the course work actually starts in the June of S4 when they go back after the Nat5 exams. Adding moving schools and trying to find new friends etc into that mix seems tough.

S6 for many kids is a bit more relaxing - unless wanting to do eg medicine they often do a bit of a mix of more relaxing / alternative subjects (eg sports leadership / volunteering) plus some more Highers / Advanced Highers or even add some more Nat5s.

I think you should be able to argue that she’d be very disadvantaged by not getting 2 years of post Nat5 level education, but not sure whether the education dept would agree or have to give her a S5 place. My son is in S5 just now as Dec 07 bday and is one of the youngest boys - some of his friends are Jan 07 birthdays so almost a year older. There’s a few girls who are Jan/Feb 08 birthdays but most Jan/Feb birthdays defer P1 start these days. She certainly wouldn’t be wildly out of age by going into the year below.

Another advantage of private may be that the ones I am most familiar with locally (Edinburgh) don’t start on the next year’s work until after the summer holiday. This may not be the case for all but definitely for some. My DC switched an AH course this year in early September so had to catch up several weeks of work to get to where the rest of the class was at but this was just for one subject, any more than that would have been a real slog for them.

My DC being at state school and the new course starting beginning of June.

you need to hightail it up to Scotland so that she can get a week or so of the end of S4, as by that time they'll have started the S5 timetable (and some schools will even call it S5 at that point

Ours does similar. S1-S3 all shift to their new "year" and timetable after Easter. Then S4-S5 shift "year" and timetable as soon as the exams are over and they make good use of those 4 weeks in July.

In English his school kick started them on their Higher folios, ds had his first plans in for his before the start of the holidays and they suggested to them they had their first drafts written by the time they got back so they could focus on refining them and starting the other English components before the prelims in December.

We don't start texts in May but do one of the folio pieces. Usually creative writing first draft. And begin Higher close reading skills. We also do a lot of group discussion and listening.

@Blanketpolicy - I presume you mean the four weeks of June rather than the "4 weeks in July."

By July, everyone should be enjoying their well earned holidays

Yep, typo!

I think the size of the jump between the two will depend a bit what subjects your child is doing and at what level they are performing. There’s a big variation between getting a 4 and getting a 9 in GCSEs. I know when my niece was aiming for the 7-9 grades in GCSE maths they regularly used SQA Highers questions as revision. My nephew found maths hard and secured a 5 on the lower level GCSE paper. He was a long way from attempting the SQA Higher questions but still passed GCSE if that makes sense. Again, if your daughter wants to take Science subjects at Higher the GCSE separate rather than the combined option is more comprehensive.

Thank you everyone for your responses.
I agree. S5 is the way forward. But I now also have it in writing from Edinburgh uni that if she were to join S6 (technically. It mostly sit in classes with S5) then she would only be treated as an S5 in terms of entrance requirements for the course she wants to do - ecology and management. And her Highers subjects would consist of Chemistry, Geography, Biology, And Amy two others - so she shouldn’t have too much trouble with different teachings north and south of the border.
I can’t even get her on a waiting list for a state school until I have our new home there and my place in England only goes on the market later this month and places like James Gillespies and Boroughmuir already have 17 children on their waiting list for a place! I’ve even gone to Watson’s to try to get a financially assisted place (I earned £14k last year only!) but even those places are oversubscribed 2 to 1.
To clarify some misunderstanding from comments, you DO NOT have to have lived in Scotland for 3 years for free uni, it’s 3 years in UK and ‘normally resident’ in Scotland when the uni starts. So worst case scenario my D stays in England and comes to live with me 6 months or so before uni starts after A levels. But that just feels wrong. I’d like to integrate her properly and truly be ‘normally resident’. But it would be interesting to know if anyone has moved their kid to Scotland after A levels and still got free uni.
Someone mentioned about thinking about other uni’s apart from Edinburgh. They are right. However, I have taken my D around Edinburgh urgh uni on every annual trip to Edinburgh. University = Edinburgh uni - in her eyes. And why not!
I agree about rushing to Scotland straight after the last GCSE and getting stuck into Highers straight away, if possible.
Thanks so much for the replies so far. I lost my log in and have only just remembered it! All the advice is much appreciated! I mean it! It’s such a difficult thing to navigate as a single bloke. I’m just trying my best to make her dream come true. She’s struggled with mental health and is receiving help from CAMHS. Hence her wanting a “new life” and a “fresh start” outside of England. Her words, not mine. She knows Edinburgh like the back of her hand too.
Thank you everyone, from my heart. It means a lot to have your input and thoughts.

I should have said ‘ordinarily resident’ in Scotland. It’s such a tough description to actually work out what that means. I e even called the Scottish student awards / grants people and they can’t give me a definitive answer on whether or not she would be classed as ordinarily resident even if I was already living there and she came up straight after her taught classes at A level finished and she only nipped back down to England to sit her A level exams (rather than coming up soon and doing her Highers).
it’s a minefield and there’s no instruction manual!

I agree about rushing to Scotland straight after the last GCSE and getting stuck into Highers straight away

Edinburgh term ends 28 June 2024, depending on GCSE board GCSE exams do not finish until 21 June 2024. I am not sure a week would be worth the stress. Might be better to contact the school about work covered and do independent study over the summer.

So worst case scenario my D stays in England and comes to live with me 6 months or so before uni starts after A levels

This is likely to be closer to 2 and a half months. Edinburgh Uni starts around 9/10/11 September

Where does her mum fit in all this?

If you look at the university website site, around 61% of Scottish applicants typically receive an offer for this course, whereas over 70% of RUK receive an offer.

I would be wary about putting all your eggs in one basket regarding her aspirations.

Good luck!

lifeinlists: Mum doesn’t ever want either daughter to leave her. Regardless of whether they are 16 or 18 or 21.
Family support worker, CAMHS, and a therapist have all said it doesn’t matter what mum and dad want. The only thing that matters is how both kids feel about one of them moving away.

Saffronspice: Good point regarding point 1. Point 2: I was guessing that kids don’t work right up until the A levels but have some study time etc. So I would register her with a doctors, find her a little part time Saturday job, get her into clubs etc (anything to justify saying she’s ’ordinarily resident’ in Scotland and not simply there for free education) in Edinburgh much earlier than she sits her A levels (if she didn’t come to Edinburgh this year) and she would travel down for those exams.

I was guessing that kids don’t work right up until the A levels but have some study time etc. So I would register her with a doctors, find her a little part time Saturday job, get her into clubs etc

Most A level students, especially those wanting to get into top universities, have to focus hard on exams in study time, not start part time jobs and clubs, or spend the day prior to exams travelling the length of the country on unreliable public transport.

@SingleDad2kids
She won't know how she will feel until she's done it. At 15 and with a history of mental health problems I hope you have factored in that it could all go pear-shaped, especially if her mum is not fully behind what is going to be a big life change.

I know that sounds very negative but I'm slightly concerned that you seem to have all this mapped out before she's even done any GCSEs and you're focusing on the detail of the Scottish education system rather than the implications of such a move. You're obviously finding out as much as possible, which is good, but you may also need to be very flexible.

Saffron, I know you’re trying to be helpful but that’s a bit condescending. I’m not stupid. Being ‘ordinarily resident’ is a concern. So proving she has a life in Edinburgh and is involved in groups etc is one way to demonstrate she isn’t just there for free uni.

lifeinlists: mum has specifically said that even if she stays in England, she won’t support her decision to move away from the north west to a uni. How is my daughter supposed to deal with that? Yes it sounds mapped out and as best planned as i can make it sound. This isn’t a fleeting desire. I’ve brought my daughter up visiting Edinburgh at least once a year. We always go to the uni. I’ve taken both kids into lecture halls with the permission of the uni and my eldest now think uni means Edinburgh. This has been an extremely long term ambition which only just became possible because my D asked me to do this for her - for her mental health.
And my brothers did this too when they were younger. Both born in Scotland but moved to Ireland when 12 & 14. Then they both left our parents and came and finished Highers while living with me in Edinburgh and then went to Edinburgh uni too.
So this really is something that’s been deeply considered.
Yes, I realise things could go pear shaped. But how would you suggest I respond to my D for the next 40 years when she says to me “I told you I needed a new start. I told you I didn’t want an extra £30k of student debt. You knew I wanted to do my Highers, finish school early, and go to uni. But you didn’t give me that opportunity!”???
The mother is important. But she is totally inflexible and unhelpful. I’ll give you one example. I pay for both kids train fares to school. The mother will not help at all. It cost me a grand each year. The mother lives 1 stop further on from the school. It’s an extra £10 to stretch their train pass to the mum’s village. I earned £14k last year. The mum earned over £50k. Would she pay that £10 for the kids extra train fare? No. She’s a terribly manipulative and unhelpful ex partner who also happens to be extremely selfish. Whether that’s £10 so the kids don’t have a two mile walk to her house half the week, or if it’s accepting her daughter has wishes and dreams of her own.

But being ‘ordinarily resident’ will matter less if she doesn’t get the grades necessary. A level study leave typically only starts a couple of weeks before the exams and for most is a very intense period of study. You would also need to be clear under this scenario whether you are applying as a Scottish or rUK student when you fill in her UCAS form as Scottish places are capped.

But you do seem as a family to have a rather intense focus on Edinburgh University. How will she feel if she does not get offered a place? It would be good to try and broaden her experience of university, go to open days at other places.

Edinburgh Uni can be tough to get into. My DC had grades in excess of the ones which are listed on their website a couple of years ago and received a straight rejection. I think it would be wise to look at other universities too. Edinburgh has another three Unis and St Andrews, Dundee, Stirling and Glasgow aren't far away.

I agree with both of the last comments.
Main ambition for her is Edinburgh uni.
second ambition, not paying £9k student fees in England or Scotland. Yes, any Scottish uni would do! But there’s nothing wrong with a focus on her top ambition. All good valid points you made in those two posts. But rather than thinking negatively, I’m trying to focus on positive things to make this a potential opportunity for her.
Yes, she wants to be recognised as a Scottish student, not rest of UK. I don’t blame her. She has spent 3/4 of all her holidays in Scotland. Her dad, 2 uncles, and 2 grandparents will all be living there - it’s only me who doesn’t at the moment. Nobody should think themselves entitled to cheaper Scottish uni places. So I want to prove we deserve it. Move my business to Edinburgh. Integrate my daughter into clubs and Saturday work etc. We would have been living there for many years now, had it not been for the kids mum, my ex, not allowing it. It’s all about control for her. For me, it’s all about making sacrifices for the kids to have a chance at their dream.
Yes, Edinburgh will be hard for her to get into. But with A levels, it’s MUCH harder and she would only have one chance. In Scotland she would have 2 chances to make the grades because of the much superior Scottish examination process / setup

I hope you do manage to get up for the start of S5 (and she can go into S5, which is the direct equivalent of Y12).

Just so that all her eggs aren't in one basket, make sure she visits other Unis who do similar courses: Glasgow, Strathclyde, Aberdeen, Dundee, Stirling, St Andrews (I've no idea whether they do the combination she wants).

Ds had his heart set on Edinburgh (mainly so he could play rugby there ) and even used up two of his five UCAS choices on similar courses there against my advice but he got rejected by both.

He didn't like the feel of St Andrews (fair enough: his reasons were exactly the reasons I'd loved it when I'd gone there 40 years ago ), applied to Strathclyde but not Glasgow (as when he visited they didn't do quite the course he wanted) and visited Aberdeen under duress from me.

In the event, he loved the feel of Aberdeen (it's also an "ancient" uni, sort of half way between St Andrews and Glasgow in feel), loved the course - and graduated from there last year, straight into a job in his (niche) field

He got unconditional offers from Aberdeen and Strathclyde (Strathclyde just before Christmas, Aberdeen, iirc, in mid February) and was rejected by Edinburgh (x2) and Dundee, so there's no obvious logic - except perhaps his personal statement.

It meant he could relax a bit for the rest of S6, in which he was doing AHs in Physics and Maths and a crash Higher in Modern Studies (which was relevant for his degree).

That's another advantage for your dd going into S5: she can add to her Highers and/or do some Advanced Highers in S6 while she is applying to Uni and possibly even get unconditional offers. At the very least, she would already be part way to get the exams she needs.

Do you need to move to the Gillespie's / Boroughmuir catchment area? they are probably the most oversubscribed schools in the city.
I'd suggest Firrhill, Currie, Craigmount or Balerno which are the next best (and still pretty good) in terms of higher results (not including the catholic schools). She might also get more support too for her unique circumstances (not having the nat5 curriculum).