Plans to scrap exams for 15 and 16 yr olds

[Fandabedodgy]

What do we all think of the plans to scrap Nat 5 exams?

Lots of positives but no exams in S4 means the first time a young person sits an exam is at Highers.

That will be quite a shock to the system.

www.agcc.co.uk/news-article/exams-set-to-be-scrapped-for-15-and-16-year-olds-in-scotland

But the Scottish population keep voting for the SNP - it's clear that these voters don't consider the education system to be a big issue. Many 16/17 year old voters may see the abolition of any exams as a good thing. My personal view is that the SNP don't want a well educated population 😃

As usual, it’s all ‘let’s force everyone to do x’ rather than try and address the reasons exams let some students down and alternative paths. It’ll be ok as long as you never want to leave Scotland as Scottish systems will have to adjust to whatever nonsense is mashed through as they usually have to.

Maybe the are trying to prevent anyone from leaving Scotland because they will be so poorly qualified they can’t study or work elsewhere

It's not ok if you don't leave Scotland though. It will lead to a failed society and country. We need educated people to make a success of the difficult jobs (like being a politician to lead us out of this mess...). And a bad education system means that aspirational families won't move to Scotland. Our world class universities will drop down the rankings and stop attracting the overseas students they need to survive, etc etc.

Sorry, I should’ve said it’s a smaller problem -
I agree with your points. It could be a good idea for some children, we are still so poor at differentiating options according to what is in a particular child’s best interests.

It seems ill thought out. The SNP say they want to narrow the attainment gap but this will do exactly the opposite - middle class parents will game the system to ensure their kids do well leaving behind the young people who don't get the same support at home.

Totally. It's completely counter productive. Children with social and cultural capital will do well and unless supported by outside agencies those without will fail. And at a time where the public and third sector budgets are being cut, I can't see there being funding for those outside agencies.

The main step I'd take would be more focus on reading in primary. If there's money to throw around (seems unlikely though) I'd spend it on one to one reading help for children who are struggling. This doesn't necessarily have to cost much - there could be a campaign to get volunteers into school to read with the children, and they could be put through some basic training. Children do so much better academically if they are good readers and even learn to enjoy it, and they also often thrive when they get some one to one attention from an adult in that way. Obviously with the right child protection checks etc. But maybe some schools are doing this already?

In England, before Cameron and austerity, there was a scheme which paid for children from poor families to do out of school activities. Just the kind of activities that middle class children were already doing - children could choose what they wanted to do. That felt like a good idea. I think that tying it up with a qualification is misguided though (deliberately misguided).

Another news story about this today

Pupils should not sit exams before fifth year - report - BBC News

Agree @User9779 this they’ll read at some point attitude is really letting kids down, they can’t access so much learning without competent reading skills. Ditto writing (even if that is typing or talking into a laptop), learning to organise your thoughts is so important.

This is utter madness. I am an expat Scot. Even before reading about this, if I ended up moving back (not going to happen, to be fair), I wouldn't vote for the SNP if it was the last party on Earth, and that's because its leaders seem so incredibly incompetent and just outright thick. Recently it's starting to look as if they have (at a minimum) allegations of financial irregularities to address. What is their appeal? Is it just anti-English sentiment?

Last I heard, Labour were making big gains in opinion polls. Is this how it feels to those of you who live in Scotland? Fingers crossed ...

It’s their inability to think beyond a sound built e to the consequences of a policy that irritate me.

trying to rent in Edinburgh at the moment is impossible. Rents here have gone up more than anywhere else in the UK. I park the blame squarely at the feet of the Green / SNP rent freeze. It means landlords selling up, and those landlords staying on hiking the prices as high as they possibly can whenever they can (at a break in lease for instance). This is basic stuff. A-level economics could have told them this is what was going to happen, but their inability to actually think through a policy astounds me.

This policy is going to have equally bad consequences. The middle classes will do well but will be graded down for their middle classness and everyone will get much the same grade, the education gap will be closed as everyone has been dumbed down, and the only kids getting an education will be those who’s parents can afford private school.

They are just so thick it’s untrue.

If I had young children now I would be really concerned about their future if this were to be adopted. This report assumes that all children have equal access to opportunities, both financially and physically. I wish that was the case but the announced closure of swimming pools in West Lothian is just one example to show otherwise.

The education our children are getting is already not good enough. Everything is dumbed down. Children are capable of so much more. I think parents need to step in and do what they can to improve their children's education. Which yes, then advantages the children of better educated, wealthier, more motivated, more time rich parents. But we owe it to our children and it's to the benefit of Scotland to have well-educated citizens. I did this myself with my DC. I spent a lot of time and effort and a fair amount of money adding to their education, outside of school. I didn't do this to get them extra qualifications / brownie points. I did it because I wanted them to learn things, to have a love of learning, to develop skills and personality (including work ethic), to become a world citizen, to expand their horizons, to stretch themselves, etc etc. I learned very early on that I couldn't just rely on the state to educate my child.

Is this definitely happening or still in consultation?

Just chipping in to say this sounds pretty awful - I have one DC who'll thrive, does many clubs, community stuff etc. yet another DC for whom this would be a disaster.

Not to mention the need to learn study & exam techniques.

Can I hope from a personal level this has no chance of being implemented in the next 5 years?!

The whole self ID debacle came close to pushing us to move south, this may well do this job.

A review was commissioned by the Scottish Government and carried out by Prof Hayward which included some public consultation. She then wrote a report which has just been released. The Scottish Government now has to decide how to respond; they could ignore it completely, select specific recommendations or implement the lot. Any legal changes required can be made by way of primary legislation, which will go through the Scottish Parliament, or secondary legislation (not sure which would be needed). There may also be statutory guidance, or just guidance. They should consult on these changes but they are not always great at doing so or listening to the responses.

@User9779

The main step I'd take would be more focus on reading in primary.

And numeracy too! Lack of ability in BOTH literacy AND numeracy is what holds kids back in Secondary years. You can hardly learn Physics if your numeracy is poor, nor a foreign language if your literacy is poor.

Literacy and Numeracy are the roots to a good education - everything else follows. And yes, the primary years are where problems need to be addressed and if it takes personal attention, then we need to do whatever it takes.

I despair. Pupils get really stressed about exams, how will this help prepare them for Highers.
Thankfully my eldest is in S6 and won’t suffer this but will my youngest gain a “mickey mouse” qualification, not recognised anywhere else! Why does everyone have to be a winner and why is academic excellence not promoted in Scotland. I’m all for ensuring that all kids reach their potential but I can’t see how anything that involves extracurricular activities won’t benefit the middle classes.

As previous poster I also despair re complete lack of regard for academic excellence in schools. We are on the edges of a very deprived area and I get the need to ensure children are safe and nurtured before they can learn effectively but in all of this they seem to forget the ' acheivement' part of girfec includes actual attainment. Our primary head recently stated to me , in a conversation about me wanting my child to be challenged more that she really doesn't " care about attaiment" . Well I bloody do, especially as my child has is at a disadvantage to begin with with various additional needs. Why would you not want that child to aim high academically?
It's a very strange ethos that seems to pervade Scottish primary education.

What are private schools likely to do? I'm outside the UK, but a friend of mine is planning to move back to Scotland with her kids in a few years, and is looking at private schooling.

Scottish education used to be the envy of the world. It was widely recognised as the way to climb up the social ladder and get out of poverty. What on earth's gone wrong?

Most private schools in Scotland already do GCSEs and A Levels instead of Scottish qualifications.

@user1477391263 i would imagine that private schools would move towards A levels or IB. Can’t see them following this.